D&D 5E (2014) Let's Talk About Guns in 5E

[LuisCarlos17f]

And what if any spellcaster or artificer created a motor or artificial muscles to reload crossbows?

Usually we imagine PCs with guns shooting against animals, gladiators and some archer but nobody stops to think what happens when the campaing is about PCs from lower-tech-level civilitation being invaded by aliens with firearms or ray cannons, or a "reverse isekai" where PCs travel from a fantasy world to a modern postapocalypse style "Gamma World".

If a side can use gunpowder then the other will invent magic countermeasures.

And adventurers are willing to spend more money for magitek ray guns to avoid possible malfunctions due to improper maintenance.

 

[James Gasik]

And what if any spellcaster or artificer created a motor or artificial muscles to reload crossbows?

Usually we imagine PCs with guns shooting against animals, gladiators and some archer but nobody stops to think what happens when the campaing is about PCs from lower-tech-level civilitation being invaded by aliens with firearms or ray cannons, or a "reverse isekai" where PCs travel from a fantasy world to a modern postapocalypse style "Gamma World".

If a side can use gunpowder then the other will invent magic countermeasures.

And adventurers are willing to spend more money for magitek ray guns to avoid possible malfunctions due to improper maintenance.

Animated crossbow. Loads itself, fires itself, never complains or gets tired. Sounds great!

 

[AlViking]

I'd actually argue the opposite is true at the baseline; it's been pointed out earlier in this thread, magic isn't typically equally available and equally distributed across a given setting's population. Not everyone is a Wizard, even though being a Wizard is generally useful. So those without magic have to close the relative gap via other means.

Why make the assumption that magic is not equally available unless you want to force a specific result? Only a few people may be wizards but for centuries in our world only a few people wielded firearms on the battlefield. Assume that a fair number of people can use cantrips (all elves apparently can) and things change.

I don't assume everyone can cast spells from the PHB in my campaign. But I do assume that magic is used in many ways because to me it's not logical that there's only battle magic. The magic most people use is subtle and not very flashy, they likely don't even realize they are using magic. But crops grow a little better because the people do special festivals, healing poultices really do speed recovery or at least give people a fighting chance and so on.

Why would people know they could close the gap? It's not like someone was tinkering around and one day they invented a fully functional flintlock rifle.

If you want a world that looks like how D&D is presented in almost all fiction and played at every table I've ever played at there has to be a reason for the idiosyncrasies we have or you just ignore them. I prefer having a reason.

 

[AlViking]

Right. If magic exists, but is somehow curated, other people are going to work really hard to find an equalizer. It becomes a race.

If magic is so curated, why don't spellcasters also counter technology before it becomes a threat? Gunpowder is quite unstable, why not create spells that creates tiny sparks to set it off from a safe distance?

I also dislike global cabals of wizards that control every single region of the world. A specific country may be controlled by these restrictive casters but it's a big world and the assumption I've always seen is that there are magic users from all over the world.

 

[GobHag]

If magic is so curated, why don't spellcasters also counter technology before it becomes a threat? Gunpowder is quite unstable, why not create spells that creates tiny sparks to set it off from a safe distance?

I also dislike global cabals of wizards that control every single region of the world. A specific country may be controlled by these restrictive casters but it's a big world and the assumption I've always seen is that there are magic users from all over the world.

Why should mages consider guns a threat? You know who can get access to relatively large amount of fearless fighting force /and/ known to make creatures that can easily survive hails of bullets? Wizards too!

If skeleton archers exist then so can skeleton musketeers, and would you look at that theyre resistant to piercing!

 

[AlViking]

Why should mages consider guns a threat? You know who can get access to relatively large amount of fearless fighting force /and/ known to make creatures that can easily survive hails of bullets? Wizards too!

If skeleton archers exist then so can skeleton musketeers, and would you look at that theyre resistant to piercing!

Why would mages attempt to tightly control access to magic? Why would the rulers of the country (unless every country everywhere is run by mages) not want as many soldiers casting cantrips as possible?

 

[Reynard]

If magic is so curated, why don't spellcasters also counter technology before it becomes a threat? Gunpowder is quite unstable, why not create spells that creates tiny sparks to set it off from a safe distance?

Why not indeed. Sounds like a good interpretation of "it's a race."

I also dislike global cabals of wizards that control every single region of the world. A specific country may be controlled by these restrictive casters but it's a big world and the assumption I've always seen is that there are magic users from all over the world.

"Setting" doesn't usually mean "world" in most campaigns in my experience. Ostensibly, we are positing the scenario where such conditions do exist, preferably in a way that drives play.

 

[Cergorach]

why not create spells that creates tiny sparks to set it off from a safe distance

They already have, it's called 'Firebolt', a cantrip that you can cast infinitly, without ammo. And has the range of a musket, as well as almost the same damage, which can be potentially a LOT more at higher levels.

A Musket costs 500gp and you need training to use it. But if you qualify for those, anyone can wield it. The amount of casters is a LOT less, and depending on the class, takes a LOT more training to use a 'Firebolt', unless you have it due to initiate magical ability or contract...

500gp is a LOT though, about 250 days of hiring a skilled hireling or almost 7 years for an unskilled hireling. A 5,000 mile sea trip, or 5 muskets would pay for a trip around the world...

Firearms in a magical world in standard D&D would make sense for societies that tend to be industrious, technical, have access to an overflow of metals, wealthy, and have traditionally not all that much magic users amongst their ranks. My mind goes to Dwarves, but as firearms and explosives make a LOT of noise/pressure when used, I wouldn't see them using that underground or in the mountains (avalanche)...

Even pirates plundered from navies (and black market goods), if no one really uses firearms all that much, I doubt even pirates would have many uses for firearms in a standard D&D world. Now... If you want to set a certain atmosphere, firearms could be far more available, either through cheaper production methods of from huge preserved caches from ancient kingdoms...

 

[AlViking]

Why not indeed. Sounds like a good interpretation of "it's a race."

"Setting" doesn't usually mean "world" in most campaigns in my experience. Ostensibly, we are positing the scenario where such conditions do exist, preferably in a way that drives play.

If country A has guns, country B is going to pursue the same technology. If that happens then guns (and other technological advancements) become ubiquitous. That's not the assumption in official D&D campaign that I remember other than Spelljammer but even that relies on "smokepowder" which IIRC is quite rare. Even Eberron doesn't have them - I simply want a reason my campaign does not.

 

[AlViking]

They already have, it's called 'Firebolt', a cantrip that you can cast infinitly, without ammo. And has the range of a musket, as well as almost the same damage, which can be potentially a LOT more at higher levels.

A Musket costs 500gp and you need training to use it. But if you qualify for those, anyone can wield it. The amount of casters is a LOT less, and depending on the class, takes a LOT more training to use a 'Firebolt', unless you have it due to initiate magical ability or contract...

500gp is a LOT though, about 250 days of hiring a skilled hireling or almost 7 years for an unskilled hireling. A 5,000 mile sea trip, or 5 muskets would pay for a trip around the world...

Firearms in a magical world in standard D&D would make sense for societies that tend to be industrious, technical, have access to an overflow of metals, wealthy, and have traditionally not all that much magic users amongst their ranks. My mind goes to Dwarves, but as firearms and explosives make a LOT of noise/pressure when used, I wouldn't see them using that underground or in the mountains (avalanche)...

Even pirates plundered from navies (and black market goods), if no one really uses firearms all that much, I doubt even pirates would have many uses for firearms in a standard D&D world. Now... If you want to set a certain atmosphere, firearms could be far more available, either through cheaper production methods of from huge preserved caches from ancient kingdoms...

You're jumping from crude hand cannons to muskets. That took centuries of development.