D&D 5E (2014) Let's Talk About Guns in 5E

[Reynard]

That or make it cone AOE attack granting a dex save with bonus for cover if that. Despite how Hollywood depicts it, full auto is primarily used in battle for cover fire or to suppress enemy movement. You burn through ammunition incredibly quickly and it's just not an effective use of ammunition. Weapons quickly overheating is another issue which means that when used in combat it's usually burst fire.

In addition, I agree that you need additional training to use auto fire, it's not that easy to keep the fire focused.

Again, neither realism nor simulation are the goal. 5E doesn't do either of those things, so guns shouldn't in 5E either.

 

[AlViking]

well, depending on the situation and the weapon the bursts can be pretty long (i've seen m249 gunners belt out like 20-30 round "bursts" without much care in war footage). but suppressive fire is kinda hard to replicate, and just a cone aoe attack doesn't really do it. i can think of a couple ways to help this.

• make it a burst aoe within the weapon's range (maybe at long range the burst increases in size but cover is more effective?) that lasts until the start of the gunner's next turn. anyone not in cover rolls the save, anyone in cover rolls the save if they leave cover
• as above, but instead of lasting until the start of the gunner's next turn, anyone not in cover rolls dex vs damage, anyone in cover rolls wis vs some sort of demoralize effect

i think i prefer the first one just because it's cleaner

It also depends on whether we're discussing an assault rifle or submachine gun or a dedicated machine gun.

 

[AlViking]

Again, neither realism nor simulation are the goal. 5E doesn't do either of those things, so guns shouldn't in 5E either.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't start from the assumption of how they work in reality.

 

[Reynard]

Doesn't mean we shouldn't start from the assumption of how they work in reality.

I don't think we should. I think we should consider what would make them fun and balanced in play. We don't worry about reality when it comes to swords or armor in D&D, why place that burden when thinking about guns in 5E?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

It also depends on whether we're discussing an assault rifle or submachine gun or a dedicated machine gun.

well, hence "and the weapon".

I don't think we should. I think we should consider what would make them fun and balanced in play. We don't worry about reality when it comes to swords or armor in D&D, why place that burden when thinking about guns in 5E?

i mean, considering what role a weapon plays irl or in fiction should at least be a factor.

 

[AlViking]

I don't think we should. I think we should consider what would make them fun and balanced in play. We don't worry about reality when it comes to swords or armor in D&D, why place that burden when thinking about guns in 5E?

Depends on what you're trying to model. Personally I'd rather start from how they're actually used and I don't think making them burst fire or designing them so they can primarily used to provide covering fire is a bad thing.

Besides, I like to think about stuff like this.

edit - I also seem to remember a cone effect and saving throw was how it has been handled previously, it was where I got the idea.

 

[Reynard]

Depends on what you're trying to model. Personally I'd rather start from how they're actually used and I don't think making them burst fire or designing them so they can primarily used to provide covering fire is a bad thing.

Besides, I like to think about stuff like this.

edit - I also seem to remember a cone effect and saving throw was how it has been handled previously, it was where I got the idea.

If anything, we should think about they way they are used in movies and video games. D&D is very idisyncratic with regards to "small unit tactics" and almost nothing from the real world translates over. Cover Fire does not really work without a sizable squad of folks lighting up the area, nor does it really matter if you aren't trying to keep an enemy pinned down. War stuff. 5E doesn't do "war" -- it does action heroics.

I don't want to belabor the point, though. I get where you are coming from, but I think considering fitting guns into the existing 5E paradigm with regards to combat, classes, etc... is going to produce better play results.

 

[CreamCloud0]

It also depends on whether we're discussing an assault rifle or submachine gun or a dedicated machine gun.

personally i don't think any sort of automated firing gun would be desirable in DnD,

pistols, revolvers, shotguns, rifles and even perhaps some form of grenades launches, yes, sure, but i don't think anything that creates a stream of continuous hot lead is going to be beneficial for gameplay.

if you can't imagine seeing it in a western or a pirate movie i don't think it should be in DnD.

 

[SkidAce]

well, depending on the situation and the weapon the bursts can be pretty long (i've seen m249 gunners belt out like 20-30 round "bursts" without much care in war footage). but suppressive fire is kinda hard to replicate, and just a cone aoe attack doesn't really do it. i can think of a couple ways to help this.

• make it a burst aoe within the weapon's range (maybe at long range the burst increases in size but cover is more effective?) that lasts until the start of the gunner's next turn. anyone not in cover rolls the save, anyone in cover rolls the save if they leave cover
• as above, but instead of lasting until the start of the gunner's next turn, anyone not in cover rolls dex vs damage, anyone in cover rolls wis vs some sort of demoralize effect

i think i prefer the first one just because it's cleaner

Rifts had decent burst and auto rules, let me research.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

if you can't imagine seeing it in a western

gatling gun. maxim gun, even.

Rifts had decent burst and auto rules, let me research.

i've seen multiple different good burst and auto rules. the problem is a lot of the time they're hard to translate into dnd (thanks, EXTRA ATTACK).