Let's talk about selling treasure...

[Turanil]

Reading the thread Let's talk about money incites me to bring this subject on the board.

As a DM, I have for years (shame on me!) described treasure typically like this:

-- You find a chest with 500 gp. [SARCASM] Note how convenient for the chest to hold exactly this round number, and how easy for the PC to determine it's exactly 500, no more, no less, in just a glance. [/SARCASM]

-- You find three gems of 250, 300, and 450 gp. [SARCASM] Note how these gems conveniently transform in said amount of gold pieces at the end of the adventure, just because a player pronounced the magic words: "we sell these gems to a merchant". [/SARCASM]


During my last campaign I amended my awful DMing ways:

-- You find a chest full of coins, most of them seem to be gold coins. Player: "How many?"; DM "It will take a couple of hours counting them all..." then later: "You counted 78 coppers, 253 silver coins, and 347 gold pieces. Of the latter you find that 138 are ancient dwarven crowns that weigh 1.5 times as much as current standard gold pieces. You believe you better not show them any dwarf, for they may suspect you of having plundered a dwarven tomb, which is indeed the case..."

-- The PCs had found several gems. However, since none of them had ranks in Appraise, they couldn't fathom their value, and didn't know that there is only a potential value with me... Nonetheless, they meet with a travelling merchant in an inn (wasn't in a city). The merchant was (conveniently) dealing in jewelry, so was willing to buy them, but only for the amount of gold he was carrying, so he couldn't buy the biggest gem for that reason only. We roleplayed the discussion between the PC and merchant. As a DM I made a few rolls for the merchant: each gem had its own Appraise DC and potential value (he failed one), and also a Sense Motive and Bluff checks. The merchant decided it would be wiser not to lie about the price to those dangerous looking guys, and prefered to be vague (Bluff):
"Well, to tell you the truth, I can probably get 600 to 800 gp out of them (true) in the capital where I go (opposite direction from where PC went, hehe...), but this is not sure, as I heard rumors of war (merchant's invention) and it may well dissuade anyone to spend money in jewelry. In any case, I won't be able to sell them as is, and thus will have to have them mounted on some nice platinum bracelet or what not, that will take some time and investment (not entirely true). As such, you may understand that I don't want to pay full price for them, only 300 gp..." Of course merchant was trying to influence the PC to sell him at this low price because how difficult he wanted to persuade him it would be to sell the gems by himself, if he ever wanted to go the capital (unlikely).
In the end, the PC was so scared that the merchant was maybe trying to scam him (PC failed Sense Motive), that he declined to sell.


Next campaign, I intend to improve (i.e.: make more difficult) selling gems:

-- So, the PCs finally learn that two jewellers in this city could be interested in buying gems. However, it happens that the PCs just go together to the first jeweller, and want to enter his shop. Seeing blood-stained big warriors clad in rags (who ever said healing spells work on clothes too?), the merchant nearly dies of a heart attack, believing to be victim of a robbery attempt from dangerous brigands. If the PCs insist to tell him they mean no harm, they need some appropriate Diplomacy checks. Anyway, he directs them to the second jeweller, a tough dwarf that can stand the view of a bloody sword. This one will probably operate like the merchant depicted above, but for the biggest gem he only knows to whom sell it in the next city. Either the PCs accompany him here, or he sells them the information (of the potential customer). In any case, this operates as a plot device to bring the PCs into new adventures.



So, how about you?

 

[Darkness]

I'm fine with round gp numbers. IMNSHO, there's nothing to be gained by greater realism (or whatever) while the simplicity of round numbers is helpful.

And needing a couple hours to count 678 coins sounds pretty harsh. I know I could do it in less time than that. 'course, I am a math geek with pretty quick fingers. But then, the party's wizard or rogue might be similarly qualified.

I'm with you regarding gems, though. The dwarven coins are cool, too.

 

[philreed]

For some real fun, have every component that makes up a specific treasure item have a separate value and require a separate Appraise check. This can lead the players scratching their heads as they take an item around and try to find out what it's worth.

So a crown may have one value for the metal used, one value for the gems set in it, one value for any historical/collectability value, etc.

If you don't want to spend that much time on assorted treasure items just use a round number and handwave everything.

 

[Pinotage]

I generally don't use round numbers, simply because its odd to have exactly that number lying around. But my treasures are rarely coins, and in most cases if there are coins, platinum coins. As a person I don't walk around carrying hundreds of coins - I invest some, use notes etc. So my hauls are often art objects, gems, and stuff. There are coins, but nothing you can't count in 5 minutes if you wanted to. And while I tell the players the exact amount, that doesn't imply they're counting them right there and then. I just assume it all done at some down-time stage when there's time.

Pinotage

 

[Turanil]

For some real fun, have every component that makes up a specific treasure item have a separate value and require a separate Appraise check. <...> So a crown may have one value for the metal used, one value for the gems set in it, one value for any historical/collectability value, etc.

My next campaign will not only be low magic, but also low wealth (I hope it won't be low number of players too ). As such, I can easily do what you suggest, as there won't be more than three to five pieces of jewellry in a given treasure. And since now I use pre-made adventures, I will have time to prepare treasures.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

To add a bit of realism, I have also spiced up any coin loads I throw at my PCs with a variety of coins from different kingdoms and eras. Sometimes they just brush over them and sometimes they go indepth with them. Then you get into rare coin dealers (or nobles who like them or for whom an ancestor minted them in a small kingdom, etc.).

Then, every once in a while you pull a plot around a discovered coin, like a Pirates of the Carribean type of adventure (not that specific adventure, but where a coin leads to a lot more trouble).

For real rarities, I even throw in some planar coins. And, for plot specific times, I throw in larvae from the outer planes (a currency there).

 

[GlassJaw]

My next campaign will not only be low magic, but also low wealth

Well this is important. How you handle the selling of loot really depends on the campaign. In a low-magic or low-wealth campaign, every item of value is important and should be handled as such.

In a "traditional" kill things and take its treasure D&D campaign, I find very little added value making the players spend time selling off all their items.

For example, we just finished the first adventure of the Dungeon Adventure Path (Life's Bazaaar). They had been dungeon-delving non-stop for a few sessions and had amassed a decent haul. Last night's session (although slightly shortened) was pretty much just them selling off their items and treasure and buying some new gear. That was even with me pushing it along and not requiring every single thing to be role-played (although we did some).

In a campaign like that, I usually just give 50% value for standard weapons and armor. Sometimes I require some role-playing or Appraise/Diplomacy rolls for expensive items but nothing that would slow the game down or make it a hassle for the players. As written, 3ed pretty much assumes this is going to take place.

 

[philreed]

My next campaign will not only be low magic, but also low wealth (I hope it won't be low number of players too ). As such, I can easily do what you suggest, as there won't be more than three to five pieces of jewellry in a given treasure. And since now I use pre-made adventures, I will have time to prepare treasures.

You may want to take a look at my 101 Mundane Treasures if you're in need of treasures for a low magic campaign.

 

[Turanil]

You may want to take a look at my 101 Mundane Treasures if you're in need of treasures for a low magic campaign.

I am certainly interested in this! Where can I get this document (ahem... assuming it is available for free ).

 

[Treebore]

Just to be different I plan on doing an extremely high wealth and high magic campaign. Oh wait. Thats been done before. I wonder if it was any fun?