Let's talk about the AD&D 1e Dungeon Master's Guide

[BOZ]

I like the wandering monster tables and the city encounters.

even the wandering prostitute chart?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Exactly. But this belief--that more recent RPGs are more "advanced" or "highly evolved" than those of the 70's/early 80's--seems prominent among many gamers. Probably because so many gamers are interested in computers and thus choose to apply computer metaphors to others facets of life.

Well, I'm going to call BS on this.

Feats are innovative.

PrCs are innovative.

One XP table for all the classes, well, it's not innovative as Rolemaster was doing it for years before D&D, but hell, it beats how AD&D was doing it.

A matrix to see if you hit when you rolled?

now I'm not saying that there weren't some gems in the 1st Ed DMG. I love the appendix with the random prostitute table and the various card and dice games (which I don't think I've seen too many emulations), but come on man, applying a blanket statement like that is just asking for trouble.

 

[Henry]

Right, and have your players whine, "Hey! Why are we advancing so slowly? We aren't gettin' our KEWL POWERZ as soon as we should! We should be goin' up AT LEAST 1 level a week, dude!"

Yech.

You're not beating your players regularly enough. That'll clear that problem up right as rain!

I'll always fault the 3E book for leaving out those Player Discipline chapters from 1E.

 

[Henry]

Even the wandering prostitute chart?

ESPECIALLY the wandering prostitute table! Where's the sense of verisimilitude any more????

 

[BOZ]

especially, that's what i meant.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Originally Posted by kenobi65
3 words:

Potion Miscibility Table.

There's nothing like the off chance of blowing a PC to smithereens because he drank two potions in rapid succession.

Yeah. Nothing like treating carefully mixed potions made by high-level wizards like what happens when a crackhead open 100 different bottles of medicine in a pharmacy and takes three of all of them.

I kinda like treating potions as somewhat unstable things, akin to mixing up PCP, heroin and crack and snorting it up both nostrils.

(I'm serious, I do like the idea.)

 

[Ranes]

i get them same impression with the newer edition DMGs. it is written for a bunch of 10 year olds on Ridalin.


i use the 1edADnD DMG (1979) revised. but that doesn't mean it is the best thing since sliced bread.

the Original 3 Booklets (1974) are better.

Wormwood was right but the change from one thing to the other was inevitable and not without substantial benefits for the game. The same can be said for the original three booklets and the 1e DMG.

I think it's partly down to Wormwood's first point that the 1e DMG was and still is a great gaming book.

Ranes (95-98 on the Harlot Table)

 

[Ranes]

Don't know how I managed the double. Sorry.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

You're not beating your players regularly enough. That'll clear that problem up right as rain!

I'll always fault the 3E book for leaving out those Player Discipline chapters from 1E.

Maybe you need to pick up the HackMaster GMG...the Smartass Smackdown Table is worth it alone...

The 1e DMG was a fantastic resource in its time. Gygax's "voice" was strong, quirky, and often blunt, very much as we have seen in his posts here and elsewhere. HackMaster, by the way, took the ball and ran with it in this regard, so there's another reason to check out the HM books.

Anyway, for years I read and re-read the 1e DMG. The pictures are evocative - for me, the white-on-black pic of the rider watching a ship on a storm-tossed sea evoked a strange mood, of strange worlds and mysterious adventures. The various dungeon dressing charts are very cool. The suggested reading list really helped me find some of heroic fantasy's true classics.

The 3.5 DMG is also pretty fantastic. The only fault I can find with it is the lack of one clear, strong voice. It reads too much like a tech manual, and yeah, I can understand that that's what is needed at times, but y'know...this is a game, after all, and I'd like to have some fun reading the books for it also. Even taking that into account, the 3.5 DMG is a fine book and worthy successor to the 1e DMG.

 

[Akrasia]

Well, I'm going to call BS on this.

And I'm going to call BS on this!

Feats are innovative.

They are simply a generalized version of class abilities. Mildly innovative, perhaps, but it is debateable whether the benefits feats provide in terms of "tweaking" characters and NPCs outweigh the costs in terms of additional mechanics (since each feat alters the "normal rules" in a certain way) and consequent complexity.

My own group is split down the middle on this: half think feats are great, the other half think they introduce gratuitous complexity to the game.

Interesting, that split mirrors our division over whether the "mini-tactical wargame" combat rules of 3.x are a good thing or not.

PrCs are innovative.

Nope.

The first ranger class (1976?) was a "prestige class". And then there are the 1st ed. AD&D bard and acrobat-thief classes.

The Mentzer Masters D&D rules -- later reproduced in the RC D&D rules -- had "prestige classes". At ninth level a cleric could become a druid. At ninth level, a fighter could become a paladin, a knight, or an avenger.

Not innovative at all, really.

One XP table for all the classes, well, it's not innovative as Rolemaster was doing it for years before D&D, but hell, it beats how AD&D was doing it.

I don't understand the big deal about "one xp table" for all classes. While it is necessary for 3.x D&D, given the way that multiclassing works, it is hardly a huge boon in its own right. It is not as though looking at different exp charts was especially taxing or difficult.

.. but come on man, applying a blanket statement like that is just asking for trouble.

Yup.