Level 5 Warlord Dailies

[Stalker0]

I consider Stand the Fallen and Villian's Nightmare I think are comparable. Stand is a bit stronger, but Villian's is easier to land.

Turning Point is garbage. It does less damage, effects less people, and 1 save that may "potentially" help is NOTHING compared to healing the entire party! If Turning point gave the whole party a save, I would still think its weaker than Stand the Fallen, but at least I would consider it.

But I would never take TP with those other dailies in sight.

 

[Stalker0]

A few conditions whose presence or absence can dramatically change a battle:

Blinded
Dominated
Helpless
Petrified
Restrained
Stunned
Unconscious

Here's my thing with this. These conditions could come up in a fight. Your party WILL get damaged in a fight. Futher the healing just works, the save "might" work. And the save is only one person, the healing affects your entire party. To me these two powers are so far apart its not even funny. I honestly think turning point could be an encounter power.

EDIT: Wow, I wasn't kidding when I said TP could be an encounter. Inspiring War Cry is exactly the same as TP except you cannot use the save from IWC on yourself. Oh, actually IWC is better, you can make a save against any effect. TP you can only make a save agaisnt an effect the target caused.

I think there was a typo in here somewhere, TP is obviously weak.

 

[theNater]

EDIT: Wow, I wasn't kidding when I said TP could be an encounter. Inspiring War Cry is exactly the same as TP except you cannot use the save from IWC on yourself. Oh, actually IWC is better, you can make a save against any effect. TP you can only make a save agaisnt an effect the target caused.

Yup, can't argue with that.

 

[Destil]

Yeah. How's this sound instead:

Effect: You or an ally within 5 squares makes a saving throw against every effect that a saving throw can end.
Hit: 2[W] Damage and the saves granted gain a +2 bonus against effects caused by the target. Each other ally within range can make a single saving throw against an effect caused by the target with no bonus.

... really ramping up the awesome in exchange for the 2[W] there...

 

[IanB]

So far in actual play, while we haven't tried out Turning Point specifically, the ability to grant someone an extra save is *extremely* useful. I'm not going to argue that that makes Turning Point better than the healing daily, which is just outstandingly good. I think the issue is more likely to be with that one being too good than any issue with Turning Point itself. It does seem like maybe it should have 3W damage, to differentiate it a little more from Inspiring War Cry.

Seriously though, granting saves is awesome. That part of it is money.

 

[Mengu]

I think the issue is more likely to be with that one being too good than any issue with Turning Point itself.

I'm wondering about that too. I looked at the Level 5 cleric attack that does some form of healing, Consecrated Ground. It also seems like a very good healing power that does some auto damage, actually pretty incredible auto damage against undead. This damage as well as the healing is slow but ongoing, and the healing doesn't use up surges. Stand the fallen seems like a one big burst version of Consecrated Ground that does a lot of damage and a lot of healing at once, at the cost of some resources (surges). The two powers seem about even just by adhoc comparison.

Seriously though, granting saves is awesome. That part of it is money.

I concur. I wouldn't get rid of that, but it needs to do more so it can compete with the other two dailies of 5th level. If it allowed one unconditional save to all allies as an effect, that would bring it up a knotch. If it did 3[W] damage, that would make it a likable power. Compare these two powers to the level 10 utility Defensive Rally, which sort of combines them.

 

[Stalker0]

If turning point automatically ended an effect like you made a save and did 3[W] damage, then I would consider it in the ballpark.