ravenheart
Explorer
Level instead of ½ level to attacks and defenses
Yes, another one of these.
As most regulars on these forums know, there's a generally accepted flaw in the math of 4E, namely in the attack bonuses and defenses of PCs in comparison to monsters.
I won't go in to detail, but the jist is that PC capabilities lag behind monster of equal level - lagging 4 in attack, 2 in AC and 4 in the NADs *giggle* respectively, meaning that monsters have an increasingly easier time hitting PCs and PCs have an increasingly more difficult time hitting monsters as you go up in level.
The core of the problem is in the difference in how PCs and monsters calculate attacks and defenses, and particularly in the complications of the many components of PC math (ability scores, enhancement bonuses, masterwork armor, proficency bonuses etc.). Now, the main difference has to do with monsters gaining a bonus equal to their level to their attacks and defenses, where as PCs only gain half that value (plus all the above mentioned complicating factors to compensate).
There have been many ideas on how to "solve" this discrepancy without resorting to "feat taxes" (such as the officially sanctioned expertise feats), some ways have been discussed, recently in these two threads. I fancy my idea different enough (and focusing on the issue as a whole), therefore justifying my own thread.
Apologies in advance if this has come up before. My idea is quite simple, and, if you will, an elegant one at that (...oh, enough boasting, on with it!):
1. Add your FULL level to attack rolls and defenses (instead of just half).
2. NO enhancement bonuses.
3. NO masterwork armor.
4. NO ability score increases at level 4, 8, 11, 14, 18, 21, 24 and 28.
ex.
PC level 1, standard array, non-optimized, no shield, high attack stat
Now, my reasoning:
...ok, actually it IS awesome, but most of this is covered by skills and/or ability checks anyway. I won't mess with EDs though
. The full level bonus takes care of ability score progression.
Note: This only affects the ½ level bonus to attacks and defenses. Skills, abilities, initative and so forth is unaffected.
Now, there are some other issues that arise from this change:
1. Skill and ability checks - both of these have some dependency on ability scores, seeing as an ability score could be increased 8 (10 with an epic destiny) points, granting a net +4 (+5) bonus to skill and ability checks which would be lost with this change. I'd settle for a +1 bonus to skill and ability checks of one ability of choice at level 4, 8, 14 etc., and a +1 to all skill and ability checks at level 11 and 21. This is deliberately more powerful/focused (possibly +8 increase to a skill), as it is also more free form (allowing smart fighters, so to speak).
2. Ability score prerequisites - be it for feats or PPs or whatever, this is certainly a problem with static ability scores. Fear not! At level 11 your ability scores count as 2 higher for meeting prerequisites, and at level 21 they count as 4 higher, allowing you to access pretty much anything with the proper build.
3. Lower damage - no enhancement bonus or progressing ability scores means that damage is going to suffer dramatically, which is bad. I thought about keeping enhancement bonuses for damage and going the same way as I did for ability/skill checks for damage, but thought to hell with it! Instead, just add ½ your level to damage, period (but only when you would otherwise add an enhancement bonus to damage). Damage is king, after all.
4. Other things affected by lack of abilty score progression - this includes initative and certain items (ex. Tacticians Armor). Initiative could easily fit into my proposal for skill and ability checks, but I'm not entirely convinced if that's a good idea. As for items such as Tacticians Armor, I'm completely stumped. But that might be just because I'm tired.
Now, what do you think? Is my math solid? I'm not an expert at these things, so if someone would be kind enough to check it, I'd appreciate it.
Any other ideas, tweaks? I'm too tired to think of anything else right now, but maybe I'll come up with something after a night's rest.
Now get to typin' and critizize the hell out of me!
Yes, another one of these.
As most regulars on these forums know, there's a generally accepted flaw in the math of 4E, namely in the attack bonuses and defenses of PCs in comparison to monsters.
I won't go in to detail, but the jist is that PC capabilities lag behind monster of equal level - lagging 4 in attack, 2 in AC and 4 in the NADs *giggle* respectively, meaning that monsters have an increasingly easier time hitting PCs and PCs have an increasingly more difficult time hitting monsters as you go up in level.
The core of the problem is in the difference in how PCs and monsters calculate attacks and defenses, and particularly in the complications of the many components of PC math (ability scores, enhancement bonuses, masterwork armor, proficency bonuses etc.). Now, the main difference has to do with monsters gaining a bonus equal to their level to their attacks and defenses, where as PCs only gain half that value (plus all the above mentioned complicating factors to compensate).
There have been many ideas on how to "solve" this discrepancy without resorting to "feat taxes" (such as the officially sanctioned expertise feats), some ways have been discussed, recently in these two threads. I fancy my idea different enough (and focusing on the issue as a whole), therefore justifying my own thread.
Apologies in advance if this has come up before. My idea is quite simple, and, if you will, an elegant one at that (...oh, enough boasting, on with it!):
1. Add your FULL level to attack rolls and defenses (instead of just half).
2. NO enhancement bonuses.
3. NO masterwork armor.
4. NO ability score increases at level 4, 8, 11, 14, 18, 21, 24 and 28.
ex.
PC level 1, standard array, non-optimized, no shield, high attack stat
PC level 30, standard array, non-optimized, no shield, high attack stat
Note: This doesn't account for racial bonuses to ability scores, racial/class bonuses to attacks/defenses, item bonuses and a million other things that aren't relevant to the general math in question.
Now, my reasoning:
1. This makes PC math roughly equivelant to monster math, allowing for a smoother, near-linear progression that keeps the odds against equal level foes even across all levels (with the other above adjustments, of course!).
2. A sacred cow to the slaughter. Magic items shouldn't define the basic capabilities of heroes, just add quirks and tricks where needed. The level system is more than enough to keep track of critical hit dice, item bonuses etc. No need for arbitrary +1s and +2s!
3. A bastard mathfix flung to the crap heap. "Static" ability scores keeps the difference between light and heavy armor the same across levels (barring feats).
4. A rather young sacred cow ('bout 10 years, if I'm not mistaken) turned into a fine veal fillet for me! I never saw any reason for anyone to get inherently more intelligent or stronger just by virtue of being awesome...
...ok, actually it IS awesome, but most of this is covered by skills and/or ability checks anyway. I won't mess with EDs though
. The full level bonus takes care of ability score progression.Note: This only affects the ½ level bonus to attacks and defenses. Skills, abilities, initative and so forth is unaffected.
Now, there are some other issues that arise from this change:
1. Skill and ability checks - both of these have some dependency on ability scores, seeing as an ability score could be increased 8 (10 with an epic destiny) points, granting a net +4 (+5) bonus to skill and ability checks which would be lost with this change. I'd settle for a +1 bonus to skill and ability checks of one ability of choice at level 4, 8, 14 etc., and a +1 to all skill and ability checks at level 11 and 21. This is deliberately more powerful/focused (possibly +8 increase to a skill), as it is also more free form (allowing smart fighters, so to speak).
2. Ability score prerequisites - be it for feats or PPs or whatever, this is certainly a problem with static ability scores. Fear not! At level 11 your ability scores count as 2 higher for meeting prerequisites, and at level 21 they count as 4 higher, allowing you to access pretty much anything with the proper build.
3. Lower damage - no enhancement bonus or progressing ability scores means that damage is going to suffer dramatically, which is bad. I thought about keeping enhancement bonuses for damage and going the same way as I did for ability/skill checks for damage, but thought to hell with it! Instead, just add ½ your level to damage, period (but only when you would otherwise add an enhancement bonus to damage). Damage is king, after all.
4. Other things affected by lack of abilty score progression - this includes initative and certain items (ex. Tacticians Armor). Initiative could easily fit into my proposal for skill and ability checks, but I'm not entirely convinced if that's a good idea. As for items such as Tacticians Armor, I'm completely stumped. But that might be just because I'm tired.
Now, what do you think? Is my math solid? I'm not an expert at these things, so if someone would be kind enough to check it, I'd appreciate it.
Any other ideas, tweaks? I'm too tired to think of anything else right now, but maybe I'll come up with something after a night's rest.
Now get to typin' and critizize the hell out of me!
