D&D 5E Leveling up monsters/monster templates.

[Gorg]

Are there rules for doing this for 5th ed? I looked all through the DMG and MM, and found nothing. It was one of my favorite things about 3rd ed- the ability to scale up common monsters with your party. Things like Orc shamans, etc. I even perused WoTC's D&D website to see if they'd released more Monster manuals or DM's Suppliments, but none seemed to be what I'm looking for. (I looked at the Volo's guide, but it wasn't what I was after)

VERY late to the party, I know... Bought the core rulebooks more than a year ago, read them, then put them on my shelf 'o D&D stuff. Nobody to play with at the time, so no point in going further. I now have access to people who'd like to play, so...

I created a basic character, just to see how it was done. Then ran a few simulated combats to try out the new ruleset- pretty easy and straitforward. Not that different from all the other versions I played since the first Basic set. (yeah, I'm THAT old) And here is where I noticed the lack of those options.

Yes, some monsters have basic and big boss, etc options- but no way to scale them up in between. Also seems odd that many, like Orcs, make reference to a deity- but have no adept or shaman options. (the race of Orcs SCREAM for that option, imo)

I'm wondering if I'm going to have to adapt or convert that system myself. I COULD just play 3rd ed- since I have an ungodly amount of $$ tied up in materials- but I really like how 5th ed cut wayyy back on much of the rampant power creep of earlier editions.

 

[Nebulous]

I would look on DMs Guild for Expanded Monster Manual 1 and 2. They do what you're looking for, creating options for all the core MM monsters, so you get lots of different types. Orcs now have
archer
berserker,
Brigand
Champion of Gruumsh
Raider
Scout
Sorcerer
Wardrummer
Wolf Shaman
Witchblade

 

[Gorg]

Thanks! I had no idea anyone had done that. On my wish list!

 

[Nebulous]

If you want even more options, there's a Talent book for monsters where you just slap on a couple abilities to the base monster. From the same guy who wrote the Expanded Monster books.

 

[Morrus]

The Level Up bestiary will have advancement templates among other things. All fully compatible with core 5E.

 

[aco175]

I would not like to see a template like 3e had, I much prefer the 4e/5e version of just giving them abilities and not have the monsters fall into PC levels. I found that it took forever to have to add 4 levels of fighter, or worse a mage, to an orc. Now, I can just add whatever I want and call it something. If I think the orc 'warrior' needs 2nd wind- ok, add crit on 19/20 or even 18/20 if I want- ok, maybe take pack tactics instead of something and then call it a day. If I want to make something cool I can or maybe give some skills and +3 attack.

Heck, I like to give 4e powers to monsters when leveling them up. I have an orc 'shaman' with some traditional spells and a multiattack where he can cast a normal spell and cantrip or 2 cantrips with no attack of opportunity. Add a fireball that he can cast as a recharge power. Whatever you need to make things fun.

Remember that monsters are different than PCs and can do things that PCs cannot and have powers that PCs do not.

 

[Nebulous]

Thanks! I had no idea anyone had done that. On my wish list!

It is an amazing resource. A third Expanded book is coming out soon with mostly original artwork. The books do all the leveling up or down for you. I think they even have CR10 demon lord aspects so that your party doesn't have to be in their teens to fight Orcus, for example.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Just a little caveat here...

If you are 'new' to 5e's style, it's simply this: "You're the DM. Make it up"

If you want to have a Hobgoblin with 3e equivalent "levels of wizard and cleric", just make it up. Don't add the class levels to the Hobgoblin stats. Think of what you want your Hobgoblin "Devil Speaker" to be able to do, then just write it down. Think he needs less HP's? Ok. Give him less HP's. Think he needs to ability to be undetectable by undead for some reason? No problem, write it down. Figure he needs to be able to cast Resurrection without being 14th level? Ok. Jot it down under his Special Abilities.

That is how you are supposed to "create different monsters and variants" in 5e; by just making it up. As you seem to be coming from a 3e mindset, well, I don't envy the pain and suffering you are going to have to endure to get over that "splat-book-addiction", but trust me, when you come out the other side, it will be worth it!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Oofta]

There's not a lot, just what's in the DMG under "Creating a Monster". One of the web sites I use now and then to help with this is CR Calculator - 5etools. Or I just wing it because leveling up monsters is more of an art than a science.

There's also a lot of times when I'll just take an existing monster and tweak it. If I want an upgraded orc, I just grab the Champion for example. Sometimes I'll look through monster features to see what's interesting as well.

I agree though, I miss the old school monster templates myself.

 

[J-H]

Hiya!

Just a little caveat here...

If you are 'new' to 5e's style, it's simply this: "You're the DM. Make it up"

If you want to have a Hobgoblin with 3e equivalent "levels of wizard and cleric", just make it up. Don't add the class levels to the Hobgoblin stats. Think of what you want your Hobgoblin "Devil Speaker" to be able to do, then just write it down. Think he needs less HP's? Ok. Give him less HP's. Think he needs to ability to be undetectable by undead for some reason? No problem, write it down. Figure he needs to be able to cast Resurrection without being 14th level? Ok. Jot it down under his Special Abilities.

That is how you are supposed to "create different monsters and variants" in 5e; by just making it up. As you seem to be coming from a 3e mindset, well, I don't envy the pain and suffering you are going to have to endure to get over that "splat-book-addiction", but trust me, when you come out the other side, it will be worth it!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Yep. It's pretty easy.
5e monster manual on a business card is a good reference.
Note that the monster's Proficiency Bonus (used for DCs & skills) goes up at a rate = CR/level, so a CR 20 monster has a PB of 6.
Also note that CR is not equal to level. A CR 12 Archmage casts 9th-level spells, and is equivalent to a 17th or 18th level spellcaster.... but it's super squishy at <80hp, so it's only a CR 12 (like, vampire or Erinyes challenge level) - not CR 17 or 18 (Adult Red Dragon CR).

Here's an example: Orc Adept
I take the base Orc (MM pg 246) and decide I want it to be an evil Warlock-type enemy of about CR 4.
Here are the changes I make.
Stat changes: Drop Str to 13 (he's not training str), increase Dex to 14, Int to 9, and Cha to 14.
AC: Give it (behind the scenes) Armor of Shadows, always-on Mage Armor. Now it has AC 15 (13 +2 dex)
HD: Give it 8 hit dice. 8d8+24 = 72
Skills: Let's give it proficiency in Arcana, Perception, and Religion. That makes its skills
Arcana +1, Perception +2, Religion +1, Intimidation +4
Special traits - behind the scenes:
Eldritch Spear (300' range EB); Armor of Shadows; Mask of Many Faces (disguise self at will; now if he gets away, he has a way to become a recurring antagonist); Repelling Blast (moves enemies 10' away)
Spellcasting: Orc Adept casts as an 8th level Warlock. His spell save DC is 12, and his spell attack roll is +4
Cantrips
Eldritch Blast, +4 to hit, 1d10+2 damage x 2 rays, 300' ranged spell attack
Primal Savagery, +4 to hit, 2d10 acid damage; 5' melee spell attack [it's on the druid list, but fits this enemy]
Spells
All are cast using a 4th level spell slot. It has two spell slots, so we only need 3-4 spells.
Blight, 30', 8d8 necrotic, Con half; this is the big gun
Hex (requires C, bonus damage)
Hold Person (C, paralyze 3 targets);

One single-target hammer, one ongoing, and one crowd control to open with.
If you want to make him really nasty, give him the Tasha's Summon Greater Demon.

Comparing to BOH, we're a bit low on the attack roll and DC, but he can deal some pretty good damage directly (blight) and with crowd control.