Libris Mortis - Skeleton & Zombie Variants

[Connorsrpg]

Just a little rant.

I have Libris Mortis and I love the book. I think it is a great idea and am very pleased with all new material....bar one thing.

(Sorry I don't have book with me). I suggest this comes about from differing authors writing different sections (though maybe this has one author).

Early in the book are feats that boost the powers of undead that you animate (therefore skeltons & zombies). Make them stronger, tougher, faster etc. Very good feats for necromancers.

Later in the book there are variant skeletons and zombies to reflect differing versions of these nasties as they have appeared in film and fiction. Here are some AWESOME ideas; hunter zombies, flame skeletons...and yep, tougher, stronger and faster versions.

BUT these powers offer different stat adjustments to the feats. Wouldn't it have been a sound idea to combine the two where the abilities match up? There are no ways listed to create the variant zombies later in book, yet they have feats to do similar things, though not quite the same.

So you could come across tough zombies as created by a feat, or tough ones just as DM decides to add nifty idea...AND they are both slightly different.

is it just me or have others noticed this. I certainly would love to see more use of the variant zombies and skeletons. They would make good tie-ins with certain organisations. ie necromancers of the Forsaken Hills are known to create hunter zombies. I just thought it would have been cool if the mechanics matched up, so I could simply give these necromancers the corresponding feats.

Thoughts?

 

[demiurge1138]

When I ran the optional variants in the back, I made them the products of different rituals/material components with the animate dead spell. The diseased zombies were created using the body of someone who died of disease and a piece of amber was used instead of black onyx, moonstones instead of onyx plus the crushed claws of dragons made render skeletons, that sort of thing. A little flavor, a little balance (crushed dragon claws aren't cheap, after all). I didn't really run them with the corpsecraft feats in mind, though.

Demiurge out.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I'd handle this a couple ways. Either a variant (couple levels higher) animate dead spell or allow you to create "special" creatures with regular animate dead but less of them. For example, hunting zombies add +1/2 to the CR. So you would create 1/3 less zombies with animate dead, but they would be hunting zombies.

For flavor purposes though, I agree that specific organizations creating zombie and skeleton variants would be very cool. It lets the players instantly recognize a foe and it adds depth. If those variants are particularly powerful, that's where I'd introduce the higher level spell.

 

[Zen]

I've gotten extensive use out of LM variants, both the feat-based variants and the ones from the back of the book. One thing that did come up is one of my players complained that the CR (and thereby XP rewards) for these variations should be raised. I was subjected to some lengthy comments about power creep in 3.5 accessories and how can you compare a zombie that explodes when you kill it to one that doesn't, even if the cleric that created it had to spend feats to do so.

I guess this isn't exactly on-topic, but this is one aspect of my experience in using these -in my opinion- excellent variations. After using these variants, did you guys feel they were so significantly tougher that such changes would be warranted?

 

[Connorsrpg]

I wasn't really concerned with their CRs, or even HOW to create them per se. Although both ideas above are solid. I much like the alternative material component idea demiurge. We make a LOT of use of such things with every spell cast.

It just peeved me that there are now 2 ways of making nimble zombies, in the ONE book AND they do different things.

May need to look at further additions to Corpsecrafter feat, as the nimble zombies in variants at end of book are much faster than those created with Corpsecrafter feat. Just got up my nose that as a DM I list 'nimble zombies' as an enc, but there are 2 types of 'nimble zombies' - ones that can be created with a feat by the NPCs/PCs of the world and one that is just another made up idea for a monster (cool one at that).

It just would have been nice to see the two mechanics meshed together.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Bump

 

[fnork de sporg]

Just like I use variant summoning spells for people to summon things not on the summon monster list, IE a Summon Arrow Demon spell or some such, I also use variant spells for animating other kinds of undead. The level of the spell would depend on the CR and usefulness of the animated undead.

Thus one could animate a more powerful variant undead and then use Corpsecrafter feats to make it even more powerful.

These variant spells are usually the sole property of some campaign setting organization, researched by a mad wizard or granted by some dark higher power, and typically make good quest fodder.