Licensees not going to 4e because of poor sales?

[filthgrinder]

Hasbro is a publically traded company. All posting of earnings (sales information) is controlled by guidelines published by the SEC. This is done to prevent things like insider trading, pump and dump scams, and similiar stock market manipulations.

Since WotC is owned by Hasbro, they don't control the flow of that information, Hasbro is in control and has it's corporate and SEC guidelines to follow.

 

[Erik Mona]

I was at WotC when Hasbro bought the company, and the flow of information inside the company changed dramatically due to WotC becoming a subsidiary of a publicly traded company.

I have no idea how things work internally there now, but we used to routinely get sales reports and numbers shared with us at meetings, and then things changed very rapidly.

All I'm trying to say is that WotC takes this sort of thing very seriously, as they are bound to do so by law.

--Erik

 

[evilref]

We do not know what the print runs they are talking about actually are or represent to total sales.

Some basic research would give you good estimates on those numbers. And, as a clue, you don't reprint twice on books that haven't sold.

NYTBS list uses an unknown method of estimating sales. Yet, it is more of a marketing tool than actual market analysis.

So, you know what the publishing industry thinks of it..ohh wait, evidently not, given it's regarded as a very good indicator of performance in the industry.

 

[evilref]

This could also be due to a marketing strategy to drive up sales and hype. You do not know their print run numbers, their dealings and accords with the printers and warehouses, their dealings with retailers. Is there a system to control total ISBN sales to public as opposed to sales to retailers so far?

1) Publicly traded companies can't claim things that aren't true, or rather they can, but they're liable to have hefty fines and/or jail time as a result.

2) You're making statements without any substantiation, other people have posted examples, evidence and support for their statements, to which your reply is in essence 'they could be lying'.

So, why are you so desperate to make out that 4e hasn't sold as well as everyone in a position to know says or suggests, and all of the publicly available sales information supports?

 

[xechnao]

Of course they have sold. Never claimed otherwise. But I do not think these good estimates you are talking about is something that has less to do with marketing than the 4e product appeal to end customers.
And never did I claim that someone here broke the law. If we consider this lying then most commercial marketing campaigns should have put to jail many people so far.

 

[Greg K]

Little Raven,
The Third Edition books made the NYTBS?

" SEATTLE--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 19, 2001
WHAT: With the help of blockbuster movies like Lord of the Rings:
The Fellowship of the Ring, an ever-growing audience is
becoming interested in the fantasy genre and seeking out new
Dungeons & Dragons(R) games, products and books based on
legendary fantasy worlds. The Dungeons & Dragons brand is
experiencing a large increase in sales and popularity, due in
part to the increasing notoriety of the fantasy genre in the
mainstream public.
The Dungeons & Dragons game, originally released in 1974, has
gone through continual evolution and growth. Now in its third
edition, the Dungeons & Dragons game has been redesigned to
reflect more than 10 years' worth of evolution in game design
advances, providing a definitive adventure roleplaying game
experience for a new generation of gamers.
FAST FACTS:
-- Manufactured by Wizards of the Coast Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro Inc., the third edition of the Dungeons & Dragons (D&D(R)) Player's Handbook has appeared on several top publishing lists, including the New York Times best-seller list and USA Today's Best-Selling Books List. The Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook peaked at number three on Amazon.com's Yet-To-Be Published Best-Sellers list."

And there is an old thread on ENWorld discussing the PHB at 128. I didn't pay attention if that was the peak or starting position.

Indeed it does. One print run sold through before product launch. Second print run sold through two months after product launch. Third print run ordered. D&D hits the NYTBS list for the first time in history, which doesn't factor in game stores and a few other types of retailers.

And even if the 4e initial print run wasn't 50% larger than 3.5's, that's still an incredible amount of response from the marketplace.

 

[Festivus]

GM Skarka of Adamant Entertainment said a while back that he wasn't overly impressed with the sales of his Venture4th module, Scourge of the Ratmen -- and I've read it. It's a solid module.

So maybe 4e's good for WotC, but not such a big deal for 3PPs.

Though it might instead be that PDFs won't see a big boost but print publishers will still do well.

My guess is that, regardless, it won't be as good for 3PPs as the early days of 3e.

Venture4th isn't a licensed 4E product, that might have some effect on sales. Personally, I don't have much need yet for 4E adventures with Dungeon being free right now. Add to that all Keep on the Shadowfell (big seller I think) and my 3.5 adventures that could be converted and I have more than I need right now for adventures.

 

[Maggan]

Venture4th isn't a licensed 4E product, that might have some effect on sales.

It also appears that the asking price was way too high compared to equvivalent offerings. Adamant have now lowered the price, and is giving rebates to early customers.

/M