Licensees not going to 4e because of poor sales?

[Keefe the Thief]

The marketplace speaks volumes.

Go to Amazon and read the reviews for the 3e PhB. Now read the ones for the 4e PhB. Take from that what you will.

Hmm, strange. I just did that for the 4e PHB, and it had 5 glowing reviews and 1 hat-fest. What does this have to say about sales?

 

[The Little Raven]

The marketplace speaks volumes.

Indeed it does. One print run sold through before product launch. Second print run sold through two months after product launch. Third print run ordered. D&D hits the NYTBS list for the first time in history, which doesn't factor in game stores and a few other types of retailers.

And even if the 4e initial print run wasn't 50% larger than 3.5's, that's still an incredible amount of response from the marketplace.

 

[Fifth Element]

Bluster and self-congratulation is not equivalent to shilling or bamboozling. Erik mentioned the former, not the latter.

Hold on there. Check the definition of bluster (noun). Here's one:

noisy, empty threats or protests; inflated talk

Being full of bluster implies a lot of empty talk. This implies that WotC's statements were unsubstantiated.

Self-congratulation? Sure. Bluster? We have no way of knowing. But we can't just assume it.

 

[xechnao]

Indeed it does. One print run sold through before product launch. Second print run sold through two months after product launch. Third print run ordered. D&D hits the NYTBS list for the first time in history, which doesn't factor in game stores and a few other types of retailers.

And even if the 4e initial print run wasn't 50% larger than 3.5's, that's still an incredible amount of response from the marketplace.

This could also be due to a marketing strategy to drive up sales and hype. You do not know their print run numbers, their dealings and accords with the printers and warehouses, their dealings with retailers. Is there a system to control total ISBN sales to public as opposed to sales to retailers so far?

 

[The Little Raven]

This could also be due to a marketing strategy to drive up sales and hype.

So, you're saying what exactly? That they're claiming to be on their third print run in order to stimulate sales, rather than as a result of sale?

Do keep in mind that Wizards is owned by Hasbro, a publicly traded corporation. Statements made by officials and releases are vetted in order to ensure that they are supported by data, otherwise it's a slippery slope into fraud.

You do not know their print run numbers, their dealings and accords with the printers and warehouses, their dealings with retailers.

I do know that 3e's initial print run was in the ballpark of 100,000 units. I do know that 3.5's initial print run was larger than 3e's, making it more than 100,000 units. I do know that 4e's initial print run was roughly 50% larger than 3.5's initial print run, making it more than 150,000 units.

Is there a system to control total ISBN sales to public as opposed to sales to retailers so far?

The closest would be the New York Times Bestseller list, which ranks based on retail sales (retailer to consumer), not wholesale (distributor to retailer). Stanford Business Magazine put out an article a few years back about how many people base their book purchases on the NYTBS list, citing it as a huge influence on sales. The fact that D&D, for the first time, has hit that list... that's meaningful in ways that we can't quite fully comprehend yet.

 

[xechnao]

So, you're saying what exactly? That they're claiming to be on their third print run in order to stimulate sales, rather than as a result of sale?
Do keep in mind that Wizards is owned by Hasbro, a publicly traded corporation. Statements made by officials and releases are vetted in order to ensure that they are supported by data, otherwise it's a slippery slope into fraud.
I do know that 3e's initial print run was in the ballpark of 100,000 units. I do know that 3.5's initial print run was larger than 3e's, making it more than 100,000 units. I do know that 4e's initial print run was roughly 50% larger than 3.5's initial print run, making it more than 150,000 units.

We do not know what the print runs they are talking about actually are or represent to total sales.

The closest would be the New York Times Bestseller list, which ranks based on retail sales (retailer to consumer), not wholesale (distributor to retailer). Stanford Business Magazine put out an article a few years back about how many people base their book purchases on the NYTBS list, citing it as a huge influence on sales. The fact that D&D, for the first time, has hit that list... that's meaningful in ways that we can't quite fully comprehend yet.

NYTBS list uses an unknown method of estimating sales. Yet, it is more of a marketing tool than actual market analysis.

 

[Vanuslux]

You know what? You're absolutely right.

Never let it be said that Adamant Entertainment doesn't listen to gamers, and doesn't admit it when we make a mistake.

We've dropped the price, and offered a rebate for folks who have already purchased it.

Thanks for the heads-up, guys.

Wow, that's a pretty significant price drop. I'll have to pick it up after I know what my budget is going to look like after buying school supplies for my girls.

 

[SolitonMan]

As a part of Hasbro, we can't talk about the numbers in public.

I'll expose my admittedly complete ignorance of business and ask the obvious: why not? I know Hasbro publishes their quarterly and yearly reports, which do not contain specific product sales info. Is there some business advantage to keeping this information secret?

 

[jadrax]

NYTBS list uses an unknown method of estimating sales. Yet, it is more of a marketing tool than actual market analysis.

'Unknown' is stretching the point somewhat.

According to Edwin Diamond in his book "Behind the Times," the list is based on a survey of over 3,000 bookstores as well as "representative wholesalers with more than 28,000 other retail outlets, including variety stores and supermarkets."

 

[xechnao]

'Unknown' is stretching the point somewhat.

According to Edwin Diamond in his book "Behind the Times," the list is based on a survey of over 3,000 bookstores as well as "representative wholesalers with more than 28,000 other retail outlets, including variety stores and supermarkets."

To us, it is a trade secret. To Hasbro, I do not know.
"is based on a survey..." is a claim that presents itself in an attractive way. Besides, we do not even really know how things work regarding the product's appeal to customers and the marketing's effect to customers. One thing is sure though: that how they launched 4e, D&D gets more noted to potential customers.