Licensees not going to 4e because of poor sales?

[Vayden]

I am less concerned about the sales of the core books than I am about later supplements. Core books sell because people want to check out the game, supplements sell because people like the game and want more stuff for the game. The question will be how did the modules sell and how well will the martial book and the Realms books sell.

Edit: spelling

I agree, those will be important numbers to see. However, all official indicators (statements from WotC, Necro, Erik Mona, etc) indicate that the core books, as well as H1 and H2, are selling very well and WotC is extremely happy with sales. Check the latest ampersand article and various posts on the boards. Has anyone seen any industry insiders saying that 4e sales look poor?

 

[AllisterH]

I
There's a lot of bluster and self-congratulation from WotC on the sales of their core books, and the word on the street from retailers and distributors is that sales are strong.

--Erik

*SIGH*, WOTC really can't win can it?

You know, I do remember Paizo mentioning very proudly how many dowloads of its FREE Alpha RPG there were.

Were you guys being self-congratulatory and full of bluster.

If WOTC says NOTHING, you're going to have people point out
"HAH, see 4E is a failure since they're too ashamed to talk about sales"

Yet when they point out that the 1st printing was higher than even 3.5 and it sold out,

"WOTC is just shilling/bamboozling the audience"

*SIGH*

As for the success of 4E later on, I actually do agree with Imaro in that the supplements will play a part but I suspect the DDI will play a larger part.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

A friend of mine said this to me:

"Just read an article about this indicating several licensees had declined their 4E contracts. Wizards' spin was that they wanted less of a product glut than happened with 3E anyway; the licensees' was that reception of 4E did not indicate a level of success commensurate with what they were being asked to invest."

I recently made an icon for situations like this:

 

[Halivar]

*SIGH*, WOTC really can't win can it?

Speaking as a pro-4E player, I think you're being unfair to Erik. He's not a "hater," he's a businessman. As such, he has to deal with concerns with the new edition that we, as players, don't have to bother with. Ignoring those concerns, even if the new edition was far-and-away superior, would be bad business. That said, I understand why 3pp's want to stay away. I hope they change their mind, to be sure; but I understand if they don't.

 

[The Little Raven]

Where are you getting these "facts" from, because as far as I know WotC doesn't release sales information on their games.

Mearls posted that 4e's initial print run was larger than 3.5's initial print run, which was larger than 3e's initial print run. (4e > 3.5 > 3e)

3e's initial print run sold through and required a second print run in December 2000, 4 months after the release of the PHB.

4e's initial print run sold through and required a second print run in late May/early June 2008, before the books even launched. We're now two months after that launch and they're already talking about a third print run for the core books in the latest Ampersand.

 

[Set]

Do you think WotC really cares what every schlep on the 'net decides to post regarding anecdotal hobby shop 4e sales evidence?

Do you think they jump from their chairs shouting "OMG! SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET! MAGGAN SAYS OUR SALES ARE LEVELING OFF!!!"

I didn't think so, either.

If their marketing folk aren't interested in what customers and potential customers think of the health of their product and their company, the company has a far bigger problem then whether or not 4E is selling like hot-cakes.

Companies don't cite strong sales because they like to pay their marketing people to waste time posting useless crap on the internet. They do so because they want their consumers, potential customers and investors to know that they are doing well and that they should have confidence in the company's offerings.

 

[Erik Mona]

*SIGH*, WOTC really can't win can it?

You know, I do remember Paizo mentioning very proudly how many dowloads of its FREE Alpha RPG there were.

Were you guys being self-congratulatory and full of bluster.

Fair enough. Being public about your successes is part of the game, and we play it as much as anyone. I will note, however, that our announcements have been about quantifiable numbers, and theirs have been about outselling previous print runs with no numbers whatsoever, but I do think they're entitled to brag about their success.

I really wasn't trying to challenge their claims. I believe the core books are selling very well, and that was the point of my post.

As for whether or not they "can win," I guess I don't really care much one way or the other any more.

--Erik

 

[Umbran]

"WOTC is just shilling/bamboozling the audience"

You are clearly mis-stating Erik's position.

Bluster and self-congratulation is not equivalent to shilling or bamboozling. Erik mentioned the former, not the latter. He's explicitly admitting that it seems that WotC's claims of good sales are true. Ergo, there's no bamboozling going on.

If you feel a need to restate someone's opinion, please take more care to do so accurately.

 

[AllisterH]

You know what,

I apologize.

Sometimes we read things that aren't there and jump to erroneous statements...

 

[carmachu]

I will note, however, that our announcements have been about quantifiable numbers, and theirs have been about outselling previous print runs with no numbers whatsoever, but I do think they're entitled to brag about their success.

Thats been one of my issues of Wotc's announcements of doing great and selling out and print runs.

There are NO numbers. None. Zip. As I asked before, anyone know how big the actual print run is? Merles saying "bigger than 3.x" doesnt count.

If the print run is... a million copies, well hell thats great. SOld over 2 million copies and working on the third is incredible.

But if the print run is 50K or 100K...well, that may not be so great. For Wotc.

ANyone know any raw numbers?