D&D 5E Life Cleric Multiclass armor prof

[Arvin Natsuko]

PHB p. 60 says:When tou choose this domain at 1st level, you gain proficiency with heavy armor.This applies the same in case of multiclass into Cleric and chooses Life domain or just for level 1 Clerics?Thanks

 

[BoldItalic]

When you multiclass, you only gain the extra proficiencies that are listed in the Multiclassing rules (PHB p.164). If you multiclass into any kind of cleric, you only gain light armour, medium armour, and shields. Not heavy armour.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yeah, it's kind of a known issue. If you take the rules as written, you get heavy armor proficiency by multiclassing into Cleric and choosing the Life domain, even though you couldn't get it by multiclassing into either Fighter or Paladin.

It's recommended that you either not worry about it, or the DM should change it so that you don't automatically get it by taking one level in Cleric.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Yes, but if you pick the life domain, you also get heavy armor.

 

[dmnqwk]

It's part of the problem with them being so strict when you multiclass, you get unarmoured defense from various classes, but not heavy armour proficiency.

I don't really see a point in worrying too much about it, because it makes no less sense that a 9th level Warlock suddenly learns heavy armour from taking a Fighter level, than it does him suddenly developing the ability to add his wisdom to his armour class when not wearing armour if he chose Monk.

I'd add this to my list of multiclass failures, on top of Extra Attack (the 5th level version only, not the Fighter ones) or Channel Divinity because I don't see why a Cleric 6 Paladin 4 should be screwed out of a use just because someone named their class features the same thing.

 

[Arvin Natsuko]

Thank you all for the answers. A little odd, but OK.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think the multiclass character gets the proficiency because it's a specific domain feature rather than a base class feature.

And yes this is one (minor) failure of the otherwise best ever multiclassing rules. I think they were too conservative with these exceptions, it would have been simpler to just "get the best weapon/armor prof from all classes", and it certainly would not have been overpowered.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I think the multiclass character gets the proficiency because it's a specific domain feature rather than a base class feature.

Correct. From PHB 164, "Proficiencies" heading (emphasis added): "When you gain a level in a class other than your first, you gain only some of that class's starting proficiencies, as shown in the Multiclassing Proficiencies table." "Starting" implies the inherent and universal features of the class, not specific special things only acquired through subclasses. Otherwise, you'd get horrifically wonky things, like (say) a Sorc 1/Bard 3 being unable to get Martial Weapons and Medium Armor from Valor Bard.

And yes this is one (minor) failure of the otherwise best ever multiclassing rules.

[citation needed]

More seriously, "best" multiclassing rules is even more subjective than most rules discussions. I don't actually have a preference myself--I like aspects of both 4e and 5e class-mixing, but neither one is even close to "best." I'm a huge anti-fan of à la carte multiclassing just in principle because of the system mastery it invites both "positively" (careful selection can be broken-OP) and negatively (often "punishes" choosing purely for flavor*)--same for 4e's hybrid rules, albeit to a lesser extent purely because they came relatively late rather than being the core MC method. I'm also not a big fan of the "MC feats are INSANELY GOOD, but don't bother investing any further" thing from 4e--particularly since Paragon MCing is, itself, another "trap" most of the time.

*This is why I value really rigorously balanced math in any game I play--be it an RTS, a TTRPG, a 4X, an FPS, whatever. When the options are sufficiently balanced such that the mechanical advantage for some choices instead of other choices is too small to make a practical difference, people are free to choose whatever they like, confident that the game will support their choices. It ceases to be a competition between flavor and power, because power doesn't change enough to be worth bothering about, and thus flavor becomes the determining factor.

I think they were too conservative with these exceptions, it would have been simpler to just "get the best weapon/armor prof from all classes", and it certainly would not have been overpowered.

Well, part of the reason for it is to avert one-level dipping. Cleric has the unfortunate interaction effect because their solution to "some clerics wear heavy armor and others don't" was to make it a subclass feature. No solution to the proficiencies question can capture all of "simple, different, and zero interaction effects." The method they went with is simple, and lets different subclasses have different proficiencies, but fails to avert interaction effects. Your method is essentially the same, it just chooses a different interaction effect. For example, going with your method means making Fighter a highly, highly attractive one- or two-level dip for any character that wants to mix it up in melee. My Bard, for instance, could've skipped Valor Bard entirely and gone with Lore Bard instead, and come out barely the lesser for it. (Of course, part of it is simply that the Bard capstone ability is crap so getting Bard 19, or heck even Bard 18, is nearly as good as the full class, so a one- or two-level dip worth the equivalent of three+ feats is an insanely good deal.) With the method they chose, you now have to decide whether low-level Cleric benefits + Heavy armor is better than low-level Fighter benefits + medium armor. Even with all my complaints about the Fighter class, I don't know that we can say that the Cleric is automatically the winner.

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, part of the reason for it is to avert one-level dipping.

Yes, and it's true that the 1st level comes with more stuff than higher levels, and mostly this is due to proficiencies.

But the consequences of this design is that now everybody else who isn't guilty of one-level dipping is IMHO penalized, that we still have a multiclass system twice as complicated as it could be, and that we have discrepancies between multiclass PCs created with a different class order.

I am certain I would have preferred to live with one-level dipping.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The other weird thing about how multiclassing proficiencies work is that you can end up with superior weapon/armor proficiencies without the inferior ones. Becoming a valor bard will get you martial weapons, but won't give you any simple weapons you don't already know. Medium armor, but won't give you light if you lack it.