Lifesense.

[Joker]

I don't know if this has come up but I have a few questions about the feat Lifesense from Libris Mortis.

I don't know if I can post it here so I'll just give a summary of what it does:

Basically living creatures "are illuminated by roving points of brightness." A medium creature illuminates 60ft. It says it works like regular light so I take it you can't see them in magical darkness?

But can someone hide when they're illuminated like this (i.e. can they hide from someone with this feat?

Are invisible living creatures instantly spotted?

Can someone with this feat tell the difference between normal light and lifelight?

Can I make an analogy with heatseakers?


Thanks in advance.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I have yet to pick up LM, but somebody was discussing the Lifesense feat sometime ago, and I believe similar questions came up.

I just don't know what answers, if any, were arrived at. I too would be interested in the common consensus on this issue.

Hopefully, we won't have to wait for the erratta on this one.

Bump!

 

[painandgreed]

Can't answer officially, but I've been using Lifesence for all my undead instead of other visions. IMC, invisible or hiding (in shadows) characters are spotted as if they weren't invisible or hidden. I haven't thought about magical darkness. The more intelligent the creature, the better definition it can resolve. Things like skeletons and zombies don't sence much more than globes of life that they head for. Natural barriers such as rivers and fast streams confuse them because they can't see it but get tactile feedback from the water rushing past. It will act as a natural barrier as far as their wandering. Intelligent undead like vampires can resolve everything pretty much as well as a person with normal eyesight. I usually equate it to infraread. Cheap IR devices don't give much more than blobs while expensive ones can be read by. the glowing red eyes of such creatures as a lich are active lifesence as they leak negative energy and can see where it is absorbed. One thing I add is that although they can resolve everything including seeing text on a page as the degree of life between the ink and page is enough to see, they see in intensity and therefore, undead are effectivly colorblind. Thus the vampire can't tell the blond from a brunette because both have the same amount of life.

 

[Sejs]

I would say that magical darkness wouldn't effect Lifesense at all. You're not shedding actual light, the undead just see by the glow of your life-force.

As for hiding - sure they can hide, assuming a successful hide vs spot check. It's just that the undead with lifesense knows that they're somewhere in the area, even if they can't pin down their precise location. Similar to using the bluff skill to create a distraction so you can hide in combat - even if you're successful, the opponent still knows you're around here somewhere; they don't just forget you exist.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Can't answer officially, but I've been using Lifesence for all my undead instead of other visions. IMC, invisible or hiding (in shadows) characters are spotted as if they weren't invisible or hidden. I haven't thought about magical darkness. The more intelligent the creature, the better definition it can resolve. Things like skeletons and zombies don't sence much more than globes of life that they head for. Natural barriers such as rivers and fast streams confuse them because they can't see it but get tactile feedback from the water rushing past. It will act as a natural barrier as far as their wandering. Intelligent undead like vampires can resolve everything pretty much as well as a person with normal eyesight. I usually equate it to infraread. Cheap IR devices don't give much more than blobs while expensive ones can be read by. the glowing red eyes of such creatures as a lich are active lifesence as they leak negative energy and can see where it is absorbed. One thing I add is that although they can resolve everything including seeing text on a page as the degree of life between the ink and page is enough to see, they see in intensity and therefore, undead are effectivly colorblind. Thus the vampire can't tell the blond from a brunette because both have the same amount of life.

I guess you don't get a lot of rogues then.

 

[painandgreed]

I guess you don't get a lot of rogues then.

They just need to know that they need to hide with complete cover or at a greater distance when facing undead. They learn pretty quickly.

 

[Joker]

I would say that magical darkness wouldn't effect Lifesense at all. You're not shedding actual light, the undead just see by the glow of your life-force.

But in effect they are shedding light for the creature with the feat. That's why I wasn't sure if I should make it analogous with Blindsight (without a radius, only that which you are looking at.) or with see invisibility (in that invisibility doesn't help but magical darkness will block the effect.

As for hiding - sure they can hide, assuming a successful hide vs spot check. It's just that the undead with lifesense knows that they're somewhere in the area, even if they can't pin down their precise location. Similar to using the bluff skill to create a distraction so you can hide in combat - even if you're successful, the opponent still knows you're around here somewhere; they don't just forget you exist.

I was more concerned with before combat situations. I.e. if someone is trying to suprise the creature with this feat, can the creature see exactly in which "square" the person is in because he's shedding equal light in all directions?

The way you use Lifesense, painandgreed, is interesting but what if a person stands outside the radius and pelts the demilich with dead halflings?
Is he flatfooted? What can he do against it? Wall of Force and Blade Barrier come to mind.
I'm sorry but I have a very "resourceful" group and I must be prepared for anything.

If someone knows about the legalities of posting material please tell me if it's legal to post this feat entirely.

Thanks.

 

[Joker]

Anyone? Maybe a link to the other thread?

 

[Saeviomagy]

They just need to know that they need to hide with complete cover or at a greater distance when facing undead. They learn pretty quickly.

Hiding with complete cover is redundant - if you've got complete cover you're totally out of sight and don't need to hide.

 

[TheBaron]

I don't know if this has come up but I have a few questions about the feat Lifesense from Libris Mortis.

I don't know if I can post it here so I'll just give a summary of what it does:

Basically living creatures "are illuminated by roving points of brightness." A medium creature illuminates 60ft. It says it works like regular light so I take it you can't see them in magical darkness?

But can someone hide when they're illuminated like this (i.e. can they hide from someone with this feat?

Are invisible living creatures instantly spotted?

Can someone with this feat tell the difference between normal light and lifelight?

Can I make an analogy with heatseakers?


Thanks in advance.

It works like regular light. I.E. Torch, light spell etc.

So magical darkness would hide the lightsource & creature.

Someone can hide & be hidden, but the light radience is still there, If the undead does not make it's spot check it does not see the source, just the light.

Invisibility would hide the creature as source, however like a light or torch the light radiance would still be visible.

As for undead telling difference between normal light & lifelight. That is debatable. Don't have much time to contemplate at this point, but I would hastily say yes simply as someone can tell difference between a light spell & torchlight. I see no reason off hand why lifelight would not shed light differently from a torch or light spell.

The Baron~