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Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!

reveal said:
How is that insulting? He gave his opinion of something. He thinks it's a scam. Big deal. He's not saying LARPers suck, he just thinks it's not worth playing.

I'm sorry, but, he's not just saying it isn't worth playing - he's saying the people who run the games are dishonest (unless you know some other definition of "scam" of which I am unaware). That's insulting. He also suggests that the players are of dull wits (to be scammed by carnie folk). That is also insulting.

You'd think that a person who engages in a fringe activity that has a history of bad press would have learned not to degrade other fringe hobbyists. Pot, ketttle, living in glass houses, and all that. But I guess we are not yet living in an enlightened age.
 

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reveal said:
How is that insulting? He gave his opinion of something. He thinks it's a scam. Big deal. He's not saying LARPers suck, he just thinks it's not worth playing.

I'll say it. These people look like idiots.
 

[Can't access that movie from work, so I'm going off my memory of seeing it a year or more ago...]

So how, exactly, is such a LARP battle ruled? That "ogre" was hit with weapons numerous times, and how many lightning bolts? Is there some actual game rules in a fight like that.

Quasqueton
 

Umbran said:
I'm sorry, but, he's not just saying it isn't worth playing - he's saying the people who run the games are dishonest (unless you know some other definition of "scam" of which I am unaware). That's insulting. He also suggests that the players are of dull wits (to be scammed by carnie folk). That is also insulting.

You'd think that a person who engages in a fringe activity that has a history of bad press would have learned not to degrade other fringe hobbyists. Pot, ketttle, living in glass houses, and all that. But I guess we are not yet living in an enlightened age.

I think you're reading too much into it. You're assuming he's making inferences that I don't see him making. Opinion is opinion and until he says "LARP sucks" I'll just assume he thinks it's a scam (i.e. probably not worth his time because he doesn't think it's worth spending money on) and move on with my life.
 

I haven't ever participated in a 'professional' LARP but it looks like a good laugh. When I was about 14, three of my friends organised a LARP in the woods near their house. They set up a sequence of encounters along a wooded trail and came up with a bunch of costumes for some iconic bad guys. One of them referee'd while the other two played all the NPC parts, and three of us worked through the 'module'. The final encounter was a powerful mage with his two bodyguards, and as we approached the clearing the two guys playing the bodyguards did this synchronised bit of swordplay which by all accounts they'd been practising every night for two weeks!

It was brilliant. Brilliant in a 'one of my best memories of childhood' kind of way. Even the guy who got clobbered in the face with a makeshift quarterstaff (!) said he had a great time. In retrospect, our youthful exuberance and sheer love of the game would have painted over any cracks, but it seems perfectly logical to me that anyone of my age (32) who could somehow recapture that spirit would have equally as good a time. Probably better, in fact, because the roleplaying would be much more fulfilling.

Them were the days.
 

Quasqueton said:
So how, exactly, is such a LARP battle ruled? That "ogre" was hit with weapons numerous times, and how many lightning bolts? Is there some actual game rules in a fight like that.

Some of my old gaming group were into a larp called Amtgard. If I remember their conversations correctly, different forms of armor give points of protection. If you have say two points of armor, you ignore the first two hits to that area. The ogre must have had a fair amount of armor.
 

Quasqueton said:
[Can't access that movie from work, so I'm going off my memory of seeing it a year or more ago...]

So how, exactly, is such a LARP battle ruled? That "ogre" was hit with weapons numerous times, and how many lightning bolts? Is there some actual game rules in a fight like that.

Quasqueton

I can't view the movie from work, so I'm not sure the details of this specific incident, but from the LARP group I played with back in high school and college, there are rules for the fights. Basically, you (or your opponent) can take so many "hits." Each hit from a weapon counts as a "hit" and spells can cause so many "hits." Armor adds "hits," as does your experience level. We played that so many hits to a limb disabled that limb - so you had to hop on one leg, or switch your weapon to the other hand etc.

In the group I played with, most spells caused only a single hit until pretty high level, or they had other effects such "hold" effects (player must freeze for a certain # of seconds), blinding effects (player must close eyes for a time) etc.

Ahh, it is bringing back some fun memories. We had a good time there and nobody took it too seriously. The place provided a good area to play in complete with an Inn, jail, fortress, bridges (I loved the bridge fights) and a small dungeon. The invested in the place, minted their own coins which you received as treasure and could use to purchase in game items, such as healing, weapons and armor, and also for food and drink at the Inn.

I probably would have kept going there if the owners had not discovered they could make more $$$ as a paintball site and shut down the LARP weekends.
 

I never cease to be amazed at how some tabletop RPGers have a near endless pool of bile to direct at LARPers.

So, LARPer's look silly in funny costumes running around the woods waving padded swords at people in monster costumes? How silly do you look sitting around a table rolling funny dice and talking about "attacks of opportunity" while moving little miniatures around a mat. If there was a video of a typical D&D session floating around the web, it would get just as much scorn, from other people.

LARPers are "weird" and "strange" and you don't like them one bit, although you've never played in a LARP and never will? How do you think many people think about D&D as "weird" or far worse words.

Really, LARPing and Tabletop are both roleplaying, and they are both perfectly valid, fun, and enjoyable. Is paying $50 for a weekend a three or four times a year any different than paying $40 for the newest WotC release every month or two that you may never even use in your game (or use very rarely), or buying loads of minis?

Do you wonder why some LARP's charge $50 or more for a weekend? Well, renting a large campsite (typically an entire Boy Scout/Girl Scout/4-H camp for a weekend) isn't cheap, they either charge at least $25 a head, or they might charge a fixed amount that with your typical attendance comes to about $25 or $30 per person. Then you've got to pay for props, costumes and weapons, so that's some more money per-person. Cover the operating costs of the LARP (printer ink, paper for item tags & character/NPC sheets, ect), then there is the actual insurance fee (while they have very few injuries, campsites and common sense says you better have insurance in case someone gets in an accident). These costs easily run to $40+. If you are actually trying to make a living off this (most LARP's I know are run strictly for the love of the game, people don't get into this to get rich, folks), or heavily promote your larp, or have royalties to pay to a parent organization that can drive the cost up too.

I don't know how that one larp works, but if you're wondering how . Here's how NERO handles combat like that (and our combat is much like that, except there are numbers going along with all those weapons and spells to say what's going on).

When you swing a weapon, you also call out a short phrase saying how much damage and the type (Normal/Silver/Magic) the weapon is doing, as spells, racial abilities and skills increase the amount and type of call. A basic longsword is "2 Normal" which you call as you swing, while the best fighters in the game swing "20 Magic" or greater. If you block that weapon with your own, or duck out of the way, then it doesn't hit, if it hits you without you blocking it, then it doesn't affect you.

Spells are represented by little "packets", small pouches of cloth filled with birdseed and closed with a rubber band. You say a short phrase to represent spellcasting and let everybody know what you cast, then throw the packet, and it if hits someone, they take the spell. If someone casts Lightning Bolt (for example), they'll go "I call forth a Lightning Bolt, 10". If it hits, they take 10 points of damage. Healing spells do the same in reverse ("I calll upon the Earth to Cure Light Wounds, 5" for example). Spells other than direct damage exist, but they clearly say what their effect is. It's a fairly short spell list where the effects are pretty intuitive, so everybody knows what all the spells do.

Each character has a number of body points (HP essentially), a normal starting human fighter would have 8 body, for example. Armor grants you extra HP, which can be repaired after the fight without healing magic, but Necromancy and Poison ignore. A decent suit of leather armor (like what a decent new player might have) is 10 points. Thus, your starting fighter with a suit of leather armor (and you have to actually be wearing the armor, just like you have to wear a costume), would have 6 Body/10 Armor. You don't die at -10, you stop at -1 and bleed to death for a minute, you have that long for somebody to use the First Aid skill or a Curing spell/potion, or for somebody to finish you off with a coup de grace (which is placing your weapon on the victim, and saying "Killing Blow 1, Killing Blow 2, Killing Blow 3" with nobody stopping you). So, your new character takes a Magic Missile spell for 5 points of damage, then somebody runs by and hits him with a sword twice for 4 each, for a total of 8, so he's down to 4 Body/0 Armor, not healthy. You have to keep track of who's hitting you and for how much, and there is something of an honor system involved, but it's remarkably effective actually.

Really, it may seem complex, but try explaining D&D combat to somebody who's never played a tabletop RPG and only seen a short video of people sitting around a table rolling dice and moving minis. LARP's are no more complex, "weird" or anything unwholesome than tabletop games. Personally, I think they're also every bit as fun, and the experiences they both provide are so distinctly different that they don't overlap.
 

wingsandsword said:
So, LARPer's look silly in funny costumes running around the woods waving padded swords at people in monster costumes?

Well, I dunno. Are we supposed not to state the pretty damn obvious? They do look a bit silly .. ;)
 

Coredump said:
yeah, almost as silly as people I know that have spent hundreds of dollars for *books*; just so they can pretend to be things like a plane-touched half-dragon Ogre using an oversized great axe to hunt down underground elves.... talk about crazy!

I am only familiar with one LARP. But they *own* their own land, and even build structures to play in/on/around. Yet their dues is either $20 per event (1-3 days) or $100 per year. I suppose their may be larps that are $50 (and up) per day....


yeah, it is a bit silly in a certain light, but take almost any thread in the rules section, and read it aloud at work. Boy will *that* seem like a silly talk.

The two times I have gone, they have done a better job of role-playing than any gaming group I have been in, or any SCA event I have gone to. Yes, it is strange having to yell out damage, or what spell. But you willingly suspend disbelief for a bit.... and it becomes *suprisingly* easy to ignore/accept.

And yes, calling it a 'scam' *is* insulting. It is saying the organizers are dishonest, and th eplayers are stupid or oblivious. I would not be surprised if there were 'dishonest' or 'scam' Larps out there.... but the same can be said for almost anything. Until you can produce an *actual* fee charged, and an estimate of the expenses for an *actual* larp event, you are doing nothing more than throwing mud.

Even the video, they have to pay to make those costumes, and perhaps pay people to run the game, and clean up, and etc. etc.

Opinions are fine, but unless you can present something a bit more concrete, please keep your accusations and insults to yourself.

:] I said it smelled like a scam to me and that I was suspicious of the set up. If you choose to take my suspicions as accusations, the onus is on you to provide the “financial books" of the larps and a comprehensive list of their leader’s associates, if you feel they are so “on the level”. And I would be VERY intrested in actual numbers since i have only recieved verbal run arounds about costs when it comes to these very matters.

At the one I went to back in the late 1990’s[ Wisconsin NERO event] , the players make their own costumes & weapons and the NPCs are played by players who don’t pay the event fee using equipment donated previously by players. [I wound up being one]. When a player got a magic weapon they only go a stat card for it and had to create the actual foam rubber weapon themselves to make use of it.

I recall quite well the organizers reminding players the “Incants” have to said clearly and that monsters are not injured by weapon swings of “Smagic” [“six magic” said too fast].

Umbran said:
I'm sorry, but, he's not just saying it isn't worth playing - he's saying the people who run the games are dishonest (unless you know some other definition of "scam" of which I am unaware). That's insulting. He also suggests that the players are of dull wits (to be scammed by carnie folk). That is also insulting.

You'd think that a person who engages in a fringe activity that has a history of bad press would have learned not to degrade other fringe hobbyists. Pot, ketttle, living in glass houses, and all that. But I guess we are not yet living in an enlightened age.

In my experience, the same souls I saw at nero, go to ren-fairs.

If you think carnie folk only get the dull witted, then you have a low opinion of carnie folk. A fair amount of them are very good at what they do.

On labor day of 2005, I witnessed at the Bristol Ren fair:
$20 a head door charge for land the organizers OWN.
$20 for a Renfair ceramic mug.
$1 for 12 oz. of root beer with a hint of anise [just because every restaurant, movie theater, etc gouges for soda does not exclude it from being a scam]
$1 for a glass bead that dollar store sell 20/$1
Countless carnival style game with higher prices and WORSE prizes.
......The Best one is that the folks who run the booths actually rent/lease the land from the organizers at very high prices, and have to build their own booths.
 
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