Lightsaber Edge in Star Wars Saga

[ValhallaGH]

Operating under the premise of all other things being equal then, the lightsaber-wielder would be compared to another level 7+ warrior-type, such as a soldier who would have access to weapon secialization for his carbine, thus retaining the edge.

That seems to have been one of the key points of the redesign that lead to Saga. To make all heroes heroic, not just Jedi. As for the "edge", the static bonus of adding an ability score to damage makes lightsabers at least as good as blasters. Playing a soldier reliant upon blaster weapons in a party of jedi, I can tell you that their damage regularly out does mine do to the power of that (extra) static modifier.

Lightsabers are barely balanced weapons. They are the best melee weapons in the game due to the combination of good damage, the ability to ignore (most) DR, and special options for those characters who are especially skilled in their use. This combination makes lightsabers simply better than any other weapon short of a tank.
Those defensive properties you snear at are incredibly powerful, allowing a Jedi in an open field to last as long as the Soldier hiding behind 9/10 cover. Add in Lightsaber Throw (and enough Use the Force to recall it) and you have a weapon that is both melee and range at all times.
The only reason those laser swords aren't stupidly broken is that they require an exotic weapon proficiency, multiple talents, and a skill to really maximize their potential. Even so, they are devastating weapons and tools, even to those that don't maximize the potential uses of a lightsaber.
A vibro-ax, the only melee weapon that can sort of compete, also requires a feat expenditure to wield (no class has default proficiency in advanced melee weapons) and doesn't have nearly as nice an array of special options for those that 'master' it. Yes, it rolls slightly larger damage dice, but that average +2 damage doesn't come close to making up for the facts that a lightsaber is concealable, able to be used in one hand, bypasses damage reduction, and can function as a (short range) torch. Let alone all the amazing benefits that come with lightsaber specific talents.

As specified in my OP, I'm talking purely about the cutting (damage) power of the saber, not the defensive benefits.

Honestly, this question sounds more like an instance of, "Wah! It's not a magical death stick that makes me win! Wah!" Which is an unfortunate tone to convey. Perhaps you should re-read the rules and rethink your question.

 

[Felon]

Lightsabers automatically bypass DR, so that covers much of their power against materials. This rule is mentioned under damage reduction in the combat chapter, not the equipment section.

As Victim said, lightsabers ignore damage reduction (SECR pg158), although it's not quite the boon it was in RCR as personal armor no longer grants a DR value.

Ah, I had missed that, thanks.

 

[Felon]

Honestly, this question sounds more like an instance of, "Wah! It's not a magical death stick that makes me win! Wah!" Which is an unfortunate tone to convey. Perhaps you should re-read the rules and rethink your question.

Sounds like you're the one with a chip on your shoulder. I would suggest that you re-read and rethink before considering your tone. It's rather obnoxious.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Sounds like you're the one with a chip on your shoulder. I would suggest that you re-read and rethink before considering your tone. It's rather obnoxious.

Is it? That's unfortunate. It was supposed to get attention and prompt consideration. Apparently it was only half successful.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Honestly, this question sounds more like an instance of, "Wah! It's not a magical death stick that makes me win! Wah!" Which is an unfortunate tone to convey. Perhaps you should re-read the rules and rethink your question.

It doesn't sound like that to me at all. In fact, it sounds like Felon has genuine, intelligent concerns.

Yes, Saga edition has done a great job in balancing out non-Jedi with their Jedi counterparts...but when you get right down to what the movies show, that's not necessarily accurate. Lightsabers are overpowered and especially crazy in the hands of the Jedi. This is still the case in Saga edition, but not nearly as much as it was in the Revised d20 rules where Jedi levels added a d8 of damage every few levels.

Personally, I still find myself leaning towards how the Revised rules handled most of the Star Wars feel. Maybe I'm just lucky or unique, but most of the problems people had with them, I didn't really encounter. Not to say I don't like Saga, however. Just a different take on things, which is fine and right in its own ways. But Felon does have a good question in regards to lightsabers and its definitely not the whining of someone who just wants to be ultra-powerful.

 

[pawsplay]

Yes, Saga edition has done a great job in balancing out non-Jedi with their Jedi counterparts...but when you get right down to what the movies show, that's not necessarily accurate.

I have argued otherwise. What are you seeing in the movies that suggests lightsabers do a lot of damage relative to a blaster? To me, it appears both Han and Kenobi's opinions on blasters hold true. A lightsaber is a more elegant (and capable) weapon, but in terms of deadliness, I see the blaster definitely winning out.

People hit by lightsabers:
Kenobi (EpIV) - Dead.
Luke (EpV) - Still conscious, alive.
Vader (EpVI) - Takes several hits, dies slowly as his life support later fails.
Guy in cantina (EpIV) - Seemingly alive, albeit missing an arm.
Anakin (Clone Wars) - Mildly scarred.
Anakin (EpII) - Hand cut off, conscious, alive.
Kenobi (EpII) - Wounded, mostly conscious, alive.
Darth Maul (EpI) - Dead.
Qui Gon (EpI) - Dead.
Lots of battle droids - Dead, but many seem to take more than one contact with the blade.
Clone troopers - Dead, mostly by beheading and impalement.
Geonosian guards - Dead.
General Greivous - Loses I think two hands, still alive, still conscious, still fighting.

People hit by blasters:
Leia (EpVI) - Stunned, conscious, alive.
Luke (EPVI) - Gets hit in the cybernetic hand.
Numerous rebels and stormtroopers - Dead.
Numerous battledroids - Dead.
Ewoks - Dead.
Clone troopers - Dead.
Wookiees - Dead.
Greedo - Dead.
Death star troopers - Dead.
Jedi shot by Jango Fett - Dead.
Numerous Jedi in the purge - Dead.
General Greivous - Dead.

Overall, it looks to me that the only things blasters ever fail to kill are the Skywalker twins. Whereas numerous individuals have survived being sliced by a lightsaber. Poor General Greivous really brings this home.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Honestly, the hard part about judging anything by what we see in the movies(here's me playing against myself even), is that the rules that apply to the heroes don't apply to the rest of the galaxy.

Where we see Jedi tear droids, stormtroopers, and just mooks to pieces with lightsabers, other Jedi do just fine taking glancing blows or losing limbs or something else convenient for the plot. What can be hilarious is that many of the mooks killed by lightsabers barely get hit, taking the same kinds of glancing blows that, say, Vader took from Luke in ESB. But they're just mooks...they're allowed to die from that. Blasters work the same way, with the heroes killing stormtroopers in armour with shots to the shoulder(at least one of these in Ep IV), and yet Leia takes a shot to the shoulder and still lives in RotJ.

It basically boils down to plot armour. So, I guess what it comes down to for replicating the same thing in a game is how you, personally, see it. For myself, perhaps its the additional influence of my love of the EU that helps to push my sight of lightsabers as more deadly than blasters. Not to say blasters aren't deadly, of course, but, in my view, lightsabers are simply better weapons and have been represented as such through the movies and the EU.

How this is handled by a game is, of course, going to vary. For me, I still lean towards a preference of the Revised rules.

EDIT: To make a bit more sense, at their heart, blasters and lightsaber aren't really different in terms of overall destructiveness. Sure, there's the obvious difference in lightsabers cutting through nearly anything, but beyond that...in the hands of a 'normal' person, its about the same. So, for me, its about seeing how the weapon is treated in the hands of a Jedi. Both systems do a pretty good job of that, but as I said above, I feel that the Revised rules do it better.

 

[pawsplay]

I still think General Greivous is a compelling case for saying blasters are at least as damaging as lightsabers.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I still think General Greivous is a compelling case for saying blasters are at least as damaging as lightsabers.

Not necessarily, though.

In fact, I'd say its a case for the Vitality/Wound system and crits going straight to wound points.

Well, that, or called shots since Obi-Wan basically took a moment to aim and hit Greivous in the one part of him that was vulnerable: what was left of his organs.

 

[pawsplay]

If you want to go out of the Saga system, it could be a lot of things. I've got some HERO stats written up for Star Wars gear; called shot to the vitals would be exactly right.

Within a fairly abstract system, though, I think it's fair to conclude simply: A blaster is an acceptable weapon for defeating a boss villain.