The kind of economy which existed dozens of times in the real world medieval period where you had your unarmored levies and various degrees of metal armor depending on the wealth of the owner.
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Lightweight metal armor?
- Thread starter System Ufera
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The kind of economy which existed dozens of times in the real world medieval period where you had your unarmored levies and various degrees of metal armor depending on the wealth of the owner.
System Ufera
First Post
So, given the what I'm interpreting as the general idea that armor would be expensive and uncommon even if a society had a lot of metal to make it from, I guess the next question would be about what sort of other materials would be available in caves to make clothing from. There was mention of fungus as a source of fibrous material, though there was no elaboration on that. Chitin was also mentioned, though I'm not sure how good that would be for clothing. Hides of small mammals that live underground might be good, but only in quantities large enough to make up for their small size.
That only depends on the industrial capabilities. Metal armor can be and indeed was mass produced.
A lot of plant fiber is just extracted by pealing it off the plant skin in strips. Those strips are then woven into a design, to harden it you can use the sap of another plant (note: old tanners use brains and pee to tan hides). So, if I just created a number of two by two squares and then linked them together, I could have a very flexable outfit. China once had armor of folded paper that was laminated, used by the common troops, it only lasted for so many battles but it was good enough to stop one to five attacks from arrows and swords.
You also have bone - wear the dead! There is a way, soaking them in something that then allows them to be shaped, it then hardens them. Add to this another laminate and you could have a good armor base.
As far as Chitin goes, hollow out and wear. You can also add a laminate to it. One of those "how to make it in the wild" shows have the guy strip the skin from a dead seal and put it on like a wet suit!
Same theory applies with Chitin, not too flexable but can be done. What I see being done is the Chitin makes the plates of the armor. Gaint spider and cave crabs can be the supply source and also a food source.
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System Ufera
First Post
A lot of plant fiber is just extracted by pealing it off the plant skin in strips. Those strips are then woven into a design, to harden it you can use the sap of another plant (note: old tanners use brains and pee to tan hides). So, if I just created a number of two by two squares and then linked them together, I could have a very flexable outfit. China once had armor of folded paper that was laminated, used by the common troops, it only lasted for so many battles but it was good enough to stop one to five attacks from arrows and swords.
You also have bone - wear the dead! There is a way, soaking them in something that then allows them to be shaped, it then hardens them. Add to this another laminate and you could have a good armor base.
As far as Chitin goes, hollow out and wear. You can also add a laminate to it. One of those "how to make it in the wild" shows have the guy strip the skin from a dead seal and put it on like a wet suit!
Somehow, I don't think you (or the others, for that matter) get why I posted what you quoted in the first place, or why this thread exists at all. The original problem which warranted this thread was that this race, being forced underground long ago, has little access to any material other than metal and minerals, so they'd be forced to wear mostly metal not only for their armor, but for their clothing as well, using what little they had for softer materials as padding to prevent discomfort. They'd have adequate smelting technology from before the time they were forced underground for that purpose, as implied by the fact that they'd be using metal at all. I was originally asking how they'd be able to make metal armor and clothing light enough for anything other than use by the "heavy knight" type of character, or even by non-combat characters. After some learning on my part, the purpose of this thread has changed a little since the first post.
The reason I posted the post that you quoted was to ask for elaboration on what sort of softer material would be available in caves, and specifically in caves, in amounts big enough to allow for softer clothing. Granted, two of the three materials you mentioned would be easily available in caves, but I asked specifically for clothing-type materials, not armor-type materials.
I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused by being inarticulate in any way.
System Ufera
First Post
They wear clothes so I can eventually sell my game to the general public, and not as an "adults only" game. So, modesty.
Granted, there are some slightly "taboo" things I've already discussed about certain aspects of my game in another thread on EN world, but it's not like I'd actually be including nude images in the final product.
So just go with chainmail bikinis then.
System Ufera
First Post
As far as clothing goes, wouldn't that be extremely uncomfortable? I mean, they'd have fur and all, but I doubt that would be enough protection to stop the discomfort from the rough texture of a bunch of metal chain links constantly rubbing against their bodies (and at that, very sensitive parts of their bodies). And at that, their fur could get caught in between links, and I'd imagine that would hurt.
...
Ah, I ended up going away from the computer in the middle of typing this post, and while I was away, I realized something: this fantasy setting, what happens in it, what exists and is possible in it, it's my world! I could just say there's a specie of fibrous plant that lives in caves! I mean, I've already decided that there would be glowing fungus to provide light in the deeper parts of the caves... I guess that fixes this problem, unless anyone has anything else to say?
tomBitonti
Hero
Not sure what technology would be needed, but how hard is obtaining carbon (for carbon fibers) or usable ceramic?
Also, looking over the armor videos, there *is* a bit of constraint, even though it is not as bad as what may be imagined. The weight distribution is enough to cause problems ("don't lean forward"), and joints don't seem to have full mobility. Of course, that is a problem too for other armors, so I don't know if there is a particular problem by comparison. But definitely there is a loss compared to minimal attire.
In the videos, there seems to be a lack of underpadding, which would seem to be necessary. I'm picturing, by comparison, the cloth (?) armor worn for fencing.
Also, armor can cause overheating. This was evidently a huge problem, from the little reading that I've done.
A practical question relative to the cost of manufacturing metal armor is what resources are required to produce the refined metal. For a pound of steel, you would also need coal or charcoal. If you *only* had access to raw ore, that doesn't seem to be enough to produce the refined metal. Turning that around, if you presume that the society has access to metal, then they also must have access to the necessary ingredients for making the metal.
Thx!
TomB
Also, looking over the armor videos, there *is* a bit of constraint, even though it is not as bad as what may be imagined. The weight distribution is enough to cause problems ("don't lean forward"), and joints don't seem to have full mobility. Of course, that is a problem too for other armors, so I don't know if there is a particular problem by comparison. But definitely there is a loss compared to minimal attire.
In the videos, there seems to be a lack of underpadding, which would seem to be necessary. I'm picturing, by comparison, the cloth (?) armor worn for fencing.
Also, armor can cause overheating. This was evidently a huge problem, from the little reading that I've done.
A practical question relative to the cost of manufacturing metal armor is what resources are required to produce the refined metal. For a pound of steel, you would also need coal or charcoal. If you *only* had access to raw ore, that doesn't seem to be enough to produce the refined metal. Turning that around, if you presume that the society has access to metal, then they also must have access to the necessary ingredients for making the metal.
Thx!
TomB
