D&D 4E Like Some thoughts on my Wizard/Swordmage hybrid + a few questions.

Page 176 Monster Manual: “Lich” is a monster template that can be applied to nonplayer characters.
This is a rule. Monsters do not play by the same rules as PCs. This is a core concept to 4e. You are not a monster NPC, so you cannot cast it on yourself. i.e. if your PC did cast on it on themselves, you would become an NPC under the control of the DM.

The rest of the stuff is just wrong. You do not generally roll dice in 4e, particularly on builds. Weapon Expertise and Light Blade Expertise do not stack with each other because they are both giving you feat bonuses. You generally do not gain access to artifacts and even when you do, why is the greatsword that wants to destroy all undead going to the Undead PC who wields a short sword?

Anyway, done now, not even sure I'm talking to someone doing this themselves, but rather an LLM trained on a wiki that's mostly wrong.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

RE: the Wizard|Swordmage: Teleport speeds are not actually RAW-defined in 4e despite the printing of options that grant teleport speeds, but bonuses to speed in general apply only to your primary/"walk" speed. You will want to take bonuses to teleportation distance instead to avoid your potential DMs balking. Pixies are often granted an exception because their primary speed is flight, and this is also not actually RAW since by that point in the gameline WotC had mostly stopped clarifying player FAQ questions. It is however RAW that Teleportation speed does not grant the Teleportation keyword to powers when you use it to replace movement from powers so it would not trigger Teleportation power-cued bonuses. Most of the other advice you got on dialing in your feat and power selections is also valid here.

RE: the Avenger: If you're building this for epic why are you not simply taking the Archlich ED that doesn't turn you into a slave to Orcus? That aside, this looks like one of the least effective Avenger builds I've ever seen, you really really need to focus a lot harder on dealing damage to your oath target than this.
 

1st: Why there is rule for playing PC Lich if you cannot play it? That is a rule for monster, but ritual has effect on it! :)
2nd: You say earlier, party of 4.. Why would someone say that, when all adventures in 4e are for 5 PCs?
3rd: You do not roll dice in 4e, and there is rule in Core book to do so? What is your point by just ignoring half of rules that are in a book, and just taking the ones you like?
4th: Weapon Expertise is untyped bonus, should I take a photo from a book? I did a google search and seems it is updated.. The thing I miss.. It is not allowed to swap feats, but after update, seems I need to remove this feat, and choose another one.. In the end, seems you helped me with 1 "little" thing..) Updated at page 1 (-3 Melee Attack).
5th: Is the sword used before PC became undead, or after? It seems that it is +4 Sword (very early in the game) that also allow you using your best modifier to Attack? Also, do you never try a items that seems some way of strange, full of power and story? So, if the PC uses a bow, he cannot swap to dagger in melee? What for is Quick Draw feat then?
6th: And most important, you stated that my stats are WRONG! I just show you that all is good and right.. Of corse, you do not answer to that, and confirm that you were wrong. Instead you just pushing with your other statement, like that PC cannot be a Lich.. What we see is also wrong by the comment of "erachima"..
7th: Game do not finish when PC reach lvl 30! PC can take as many adventures he wants.. If he is still alive..
 
Last edited:

RE: the Wizard|Swordmage: Teleport speeds are not actually RAW-defined in 4e despite the printing of options that grant teleport speeds, but bonuses to speed in general apply only to your primary/"walk" speed. You will want to take bonuses to teleportation distance instead to avoid your potential DMs balking. Pixies are often granted an exception because their primary speed is flight, and this is also not actually RAW since by that point in the gameline WotC had mostly stopped clarifying player FAQ questions. It is however RAW that Teleportation speed does not grant the Teleportation keyword to powers when you use it to replace movement from powers so it would not trigger Teleportation power-cued bonuses. Most of the other advice you got on dialing in your feat and power selections is also valid here.

RE: the Avenger: If you're building this for epic why are you not simply taking the Archlich ED that doesn't turn you into a slave to Orcus? That aside, this looks like one of the least effective Avenger builds I've ever seen, you really really need to focus a lot harder on dealing damage to your oath target than this.
Finally constructive answer..
I am not interested in Archlich, they are like good alignment, and that is not my style of play. Also I really wanted Eternal Seeker so I can use some great combinations with another classes.. More attacks per turn and way more defense (if you check my build deeply, it is actually more way oriented to defense than the attack).. I still think that my attack and damage is solid. I can attack 2x in a turn. Also I can attack any enemy with AOO that come to a square next to me when I am next to Oath of Enmity.. With good position powers (Transdimensional Invasion/Scatter to the Astral Winds/Mass Charm/Charm of False Glory), I can trigger that AOO so offen.. Even AOO attack (Overwhelming Strike) let me shift 1 square to another square next to Oath of Enmity. And actually I invested in AOO Defense, so even without positioning powers, I can usually just move and defend, to be in good position so enemies later move next to me and trigger my AOO Attack (Usually I use move action against ordinary monsters, +11 to all AOO Defense).. Good for killing other than Oath of Enmity..
Against Oath of Enmity I can use Necrotic Master to turn all damage into Necrotic, Painful Oath for more damage and Exposing Oath to remove any Oath of Enemy necrotic resistance..
I would like to hear your advice how to increase attack and damage, just to compare it with what I did..
Actually, there is adventure "E3 - Prince of Undeath", that I finished and released myself from the Orcus.. Like, evil characters do not "think" like good ones.. They offen use one another just to improve, get benefits, even if they are like a slaves to the master.. And later offen betray one another if they see benefit in it.. Of corse if not "dominated", or with too much fear toward the master!
 
Last edited:

To be clear, it is not legal for a PC to become a lich without your DM making a special exception for you. The PC-legal option is Archlich, which has distinct lore and requirements, i.e. it is a "neutral lichdom" option that isn't a mass-murdering slave to Orcus due to foolishly trying to obtain immortality early at any cost.
 

This character won't be murdering anyone though because, again, this build is wildly ineffective. Your damage here is not "solid"-- your level 30 damage here would be weak at level 13. Vast swaths of your feats are spent on defense boosts on a class that's generally already tanky enough with no defense feats but unarmored agility and superior will. Halo of Warding is actively antisynergistic with the Lich aura. The "bait OAs for damage" strategy doesn't work. You don't even have an on-stat MBA to make your opportunity attacks with until level 20, which means you're imagining two full years of play without them.

You also, surprisingly, didn't take expanded crit range, which would have been pretty marginal with the rest of the package but is usually the obvious flashy combo for increased damage on epic avengers!

Overall it appears you just wrote this character for freeform solo roleplay and aren't following any of the encounter design guidelines so, have fun?
 

To be clear, it is not legal for a PC to become a lich without your DM making a special exception for you. The PC-legal option is Archlich, which has distinct lore and requirements, i.e. it is a "neutral lichdom" option that isn't a mass-murdering slave to Orcus due to foolishly trying to obtain immortality early at any cost.
Ritual is also "legal"..
Why would it be included in the original game otherwise?
 
Last edited:

This character won't be murdering anyone though because, again, this build is wildly ineffective. Your damage here is not "solid"-- your level 30 damage here would be weak at level 13. Vast swaths of your feats are spent on defense boosts on a class that's generally already tanky enough with no defense feats but unarmored agility and superior will. Halo of Warding is actively antisynergistic with the Lich aura. The "bait OAs for damage" strategy doesn't work. You don't even have an on-stat MBA to make your opportunity attacks with until level 20, which means you're imagining two full years of play without them.

You also, surprisingly, didn't take expanded crit range, which would have been pretty marginal with the rest of the package but is usually the obvious flashy combo for increased damage on epic avengers!

Overall it appears you just wrote this character for freeform solo roleplay and aren't following any of the encounter design guidelines so, have fun?

You did not show me any damage increasement, other than pointing toward few critical feats.. Which highly depends on roll.. And I am looking for "raw" damage increasement..
And if you talking about Light Blade Mastery feat for expanded critical (19-20), I do not meet prerequisites for it.. (So it is a false recommendation..)(Also, I use melee, but I am not physical martial class that depends on Str and Dex.. I am more Int and Wis, for Arcane and Religion, that fits very well in Lich description.. But "my Lich" just like melee combat, compared to other Lichs..)
And I actually have this for critical hits, this is from Relentless Slayer:
- Lethal Action (11th level): If you spend an action point to make an attack against your oath of enmity target, the attack can score a critical hit on a roll of 18-20.

Necromantic Aura (not Lich Aura) has aura "reach" of 5, so it can work well with Halo of Warding.. Monster that can attack only in "melee" can move only 1 square to activate Halo of Warding, so the monster can indeed activate it while starting in Necromantic Aura area.. So the synergy between the "two" exist.. Example: Monster's Turn - Monster start 3 squares away from PC; monster is under Necromantic Aura; Monster move on a square adjacet to PC and activates Halo of Warding)
Even if Necromantic Aura "reach" is 1 it would still be synergy.. Because Necromantic Aura does take damage to any enemy than starts it turn within Necromantic Aura, but also it deals damage to enemies that moves into Necromantic Aura "area"..

Of course I do not have on-stat MBA before lvl 20.. What for? For some rarely AOO? ..at lvl 20 I get Slayer's Ascendancy, that is why I added it on lvl 20! At lvl 25 come Quicksilver Blade, and later feat Halo of Warding! (..so for you any non AOO based build should take on-stat MBA at beginning?) So I added on-stat MBA when I can use it frequently in combination with other powers/feats.. Before it I just had other priorities..

When I am listening to other suggestions: It is like everyone follow the same way of build! 90% of players taking exact the same feats.. And if you say, I wanna try something.. They will try to stop you and say.. You are doing it wrong, follow the rest! Or if you play PC video games.. All follows the "meta"?

Can you show me "raw damage and attack" increasement with feats.. That is not Avenging Resolution feat.. ?? And of course not changing my Epic way.. You say this is a weak Attack and Damage.. Show me the feat that improves at least one for at least +5? Listening to suggestion! Because you say it is possible!

And by the way, more about damage.. From lvl 14, I regains the use of an expended encounter power, so I can never run out of encounter powers.. Which mean I can basically use encounter power instead of Overwhelming Strike.. And at lvl 20, encounter power as first attack and overwhelming strike as second attack, every single turn
 
Last edited:

Enchanted Trinkets Complete

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Remove ads

Top