Limited Wish and Metamagic Feats

[Trainz]

You can cast a limited wish to simulate a lower level spell.

Can you use a metamagic feat on it ?

If a sorceror uses limited wish to cast a ray of enfeeblement, can he use a 9th level slot to empower it ?

 

[Jdvn1]

I'd say that the modified spell would have to be a lower level spell. Otherwise, you're empowering the Limited Wish, not the Ray of Enfeeblement, which doesn't do anything.

Make sense?

 

[F5]

My gut reaction is no. Lim Wish can mimic any wizard spell of 6th level or lower. A lower-level spell raised to 9th level by metamagic feats counts as a 9th level spell. So, I don't think a limited wish would get you there.

However, I think I would allow your original example of an Empowered ray of Enfeeblement. It's a 1st level spell, empowered only tacks on 2 levels. I'd even allow an empowered, maximized ray of enfeeblement, since it still comes out to the 6th level limit of Limited Wish. The description of limited wish says that any lower level spell wished for is considered 7th level for save DCs, so technically it's almost an empowered, maximized, HEIGHTENED ray of enfeeblement.

What is the cost of limited wish, 300xp a pop I think? For 300 xp, I think this is fair.

(edited for bad typing)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You can cast a limited wish to simulate a lower level spell.

Can you use a metamagic feat on it ?

If a sorceror uses limited wish to cast a ray of enfeeblement, can he use a 9th level slot to empower it ?

Yes, and no.

If you are using Limited Wish to cast a lower-level spell, you can metamagic that lower-level spell - up to the limits of Limited Wish:

• Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
• Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
• Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.
• Duplicate any other spell of 4th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.

Thus, assuming we aren't dealing with prohibited schools, you could apply any metamagic feat you know* to any Sorceror / Wizard spell, so long as the adjusted level of the spell is less than or equal to 6th.

So, you could use Limited Wish to cast an Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement.

* - I'm not entirely certain that you could use the Limited Wish spell to apply a metamagic feat you don't know, but I don't see that it would suffer from *too* many balance problems. However, it's likely best to leave it at "What you know."

 

[Trainz]

What is the cost of limited wish, 300xp a pop I think? For 300 xp, I think this is fair.

I thought you didn't pay the XP cost if used to mimic a spell... ?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I thought you didn't pay the XP cost if used to mimic a spell... ?

You certainly pay the XP cost.

The XP component is 300XP or more... not 300XP or more or none at all.

I personally don't consider Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement to be a spell replicable by Limited Wish; Ray of Enfeeblement is a spell, ERoE is a spell modified by a feat.

I do, however, consider that an Empowered Limited Wish duplicating Ray of Enfeeblement would produce an Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement. The effect of LW is 'see text'; when you use the spell to duplicate RoE, it becomes 'one ray' dealing a variable numeric effect, and thus is Empowerable.

So as you suggest in post 1, I'd require a 9th level slot and the Empower Spell feat.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I thought you didn't pay the XP cost if used to mimic a spell... ?

You do.

A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal (but the save DC is for a 7th-level spell). When a limited wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay that cost or 300 XP, whichever is more. When a limited wish spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 1,000 gp, you must provide that component.

XP Cost: 300 XP or more (see above).

 

[Trainz]

You certainly pay the XP cost.

The XP component is 300XP or more... not 300XP or more or none at all.

Oh... I just realized... we always assumed, because of Miracle, you know...

Damn. Limited Wish is not such a good spell afterwards.

I personally don't consider Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement to be a spell replicable by Limited Wish; Ray of Enfeeblement is a spell, ERoE is a spell modified by a feat.

I do, however, consider that an Empowered Limited Wish duplicating Ray of Enfeeblement would produce an Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement. The effect of LW is 'see text'; when you use the spell to duplicate RoE, it becomes 'one ray' dealing a variable numeric effect, and thus is Empowerable.

So as you suggest in post 1, I'd require a 9th level slot and the Empower Spell feat.

-Hyp.

Thanks for all the input mate.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I would allow limited wish to duplicate a spell modified by a metamagic feat, but only if it was still under 6th level after the level adjustment of the metamagic feat, and only if the caster has the metamagic feat in question. I would allow Wish to duplicate a spell with a metamagic feat the caster doesn't have, though. Wish is a pretty good spell, after all.

 

[Sithobi1]

I don't think anyone would want to use Wish to emulate a spell unless they had no other choice. 5,000 XP? I think not.
Back to the topic: I would allow a metamagiced spell under 6th, if the spell stayed under 6th level. If a person wanted to have an Empowered Disintegrate from a Limited Wish, I would say that the Limited Wish itself would have to be Empowered.