Limiting Gesault

[Stormborn]

Given that a lot of the newer classes (thinking Duskblade in particular here) that WotC has come out with seem like they are ways to do a better version of what you could have done with a dual class before, do those of you who play with gestault PCs limit the choices to the core classes, or pick and choose from the new classes, or all option open?

A related question, if you bar things like Duskblade, do you allow Fighter/Sorcerer gestault PCs to take feats that replicate those class abilities that do things like negate arcane spell failure? Or, if a gestault PC takes Duskblade/Sorcerer do you allow the class abilities to apply to both classes? Not technically RAW, I know, but it seems like a gestault PC whow casts arcane spells from two classes would apply that knowledge to both.

(Oh, Mods, if this is in the wrong forum, please move. I figurd I might get a better responce here than in Rules.)

 

[Voadam]

I have options for gestalt and gestalt with NPC classes in my pbp game if they trade in higher point buy.

Any class I allow in is allowed as gestalt.

A fighter sorcerer gestalt will have more spells, a bigger spell list to choose from, Higher level spells, more hp, and more fighter feats than a straight duskblade. Both do similar niches as does the battle sorcerer, but different options come out differently and I like having the options for the PCs to choose from.

 

[Bladesong]

Gestalts are easier and less complicated than I think people tend to make them.
For your first question, they are allowed to take feats from whatever sources are agreed upon before the campaing begins and the DM has the last say if a feat is acceptible or not.
As for your second question, and where people seem to be confused, is that a gestalt charater technically is only one class (and that is the easiest way to use view it).
I have noticed that some people run them as 2 separate classes when they are actually supposed to be one combined class; you just take what is different of each class and combine it the of what is the same for each class. So a human fighter/rogue gestalt would have +2 on forts and reflex, the fighters BaB, the rogues skill progression, the number of feats as a fighter (which could be taken from either the fighter or rogue tree. Seems fairly straight forward to me.

 

[XCorvis]

My GM allows all the core classes from the Complete and Core books. He's limited the prestige classes somewhat, specifically to remove those that combine the features of two core classes (ie eldritch knight). We also use feats from the same sources. In our game, it would be a bit difficult to come up with a character with the ability to ignore some amount of arcane casting spell failure, as most of the classes that give it are essentailly combo PrCs that my GM has banned. I suppose I could talk him into it if I really wanted to, but it hasn't been a major issue for us.

 

[patrickjarrell]

An idea that I've had is using gestalt classes, but not allowing any combination. Instead of fighter/wizard, or something like that, allow the player to choose one standard class from the PHB, and then choose the other class from a source like Magic of Incarnum or Tome of Magic.

 

[Ferrix]

Gestalts are easier and less complicated than I think people tend to make them.
For your first question, they are allowed to take feats from whatever sources are agreed upon before the campaing begins and the DM has the last say if a feat is acceptible or not.
As for your second question, and where people seem to be confused, is that a gestalt charater technically is only one class (and that is the easiest way to use view it).
I have noticed that some people run them as 2 separate classes when they are actually supposed to be one combined class; you just take what is different of each class and combine it the of what is the same for each class. So a human fighter/rogue gestalt would have +2 on forts and reflex, the fighters BaB, the rogues skill progression, the number of feats as a fighter (which could be taken from either the fighter or rogue tree. Seems fairly straight forward to me.

Actually in no part of the gestalt rules does it say that a gestalt character is only one class. A gestalt character "essentially takes two classes at every level" (SRD), so they do actually have two class tracks. Not a single class which is a linked pair of two classes.

Some people use gestalt in the manner you are talking about as a simplified or limiting factor to the gestalt rules, however it is not the actual case.

Regarding the initial question, when I run a gestalt game I don't usually limit any of the new base classes so long as they are in the books I've selected to use from the game. Although I will limit some feats which make normal multiclassing effective but in the gestalt setup become incredibly powerful (the devoted and ascetic feats particularly from CA).

The secondary question, class abilities don't apply to abilities or spellcasting from another class unless the ability specifically says it does. Thus no, the ability to wear armor as a duskblade and still cast would not extend to another spellcasting class in the gestalt combo. If a player wants the ability to be a fighter-sorcerer and fight with armor, he'll have to figure out a way to do it within the rules or come to me with a custom feat that I'll then approve or not depending upon its balance.

 

[XCorvis]

Actually in no part of the gestalt rules does it say that a gestalt character is only one class. A gestalt character "essentially takes two classes at every level" (SRD), so they do actually have two class tracks. Not a single class which is a linked pair of two classes.

Some people use gestalt in the manner you are talking about as a simplified or limiting factor to the gestalt rules, however it is not the actual case.

I think it's implied that it's a single class. It's not really a simplification or limiting factor - that's the only way it actually works. A gestalt Fighter-Rogue 2 is a second level character with two class levels, not a 4th level character with 4 class levels (or, even worse, a 2nd level character with 4 class levels). Considering them as two separate classes where you don't get some abilities and half the levels don't seem to count is overly complex and confusing and has probably lead to more posts about gestalt on the boards than any other gestalt issue. It's much easier to understand if you consider a gestalt fighter-rogue to be a "Frogue", a single, seeming normal class with Good BAB, Fort and Reflex saves, poor will saves, d10 HD, 8 skill points per level, etc, etc...