Linking CHA and Beauty

[RFisher]

Comliness doesn't really matter. Comliness is in the eye of the beholder. Charisma is what matters. Charisma tends to vary less among different observers.

I have no problem with using "beautiful" or "ugly" as descriptors of high/low Charisma scores since those terms are equally applicable to qualities beyond comliness.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Like I said on the other thread, this is my example for a high Charisma character:

It certainly fits - though she isn't considered to be very attractive any more (except in the eyes of a certain dwarf), she does seem to get along with everyone.

Granny Weatherwax also has a high Charisma - though in her case, that's not a sign of "getting along with others", but "getting others to do what you want them to do". Her force of personality is so strong that no one dares to go up against her.

Both are also good example for why Charisma goes up with old age, while beauty doesn't.


Really, if you want to use Beauty in the game, you should probably handle it via a feat that gives bonus to charisma-based rolls versus people who would find you attractive...

 

[Klaus]

Although good looks *can* help explain a character's High Charisma, appearance is pretty much just a role-playing decision. If anything, I'd require a stunningly beautiful character to take the Distinctive trait from Unearthed Arcana: you get a penalty to Disguise, but you get a bonus on Reputation.

 

[delericho]

I too have divorced Charisma from appearance entirely. I do not have any stat of appearance at all; players can describe their characters any way they want, regardless of Charisma.

 

[Psion]

I like (CON + CHA)/2 = Comliness.

I use 10 + CON mod + CHA mod.

Or alternately, 2d6+3 + CON mod + CHA mod.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

How about this:

When you create characters using the point buy system, you can put up to five points into an "Appearance" stat. Each point will give you +1 on all Charisma-based skill rolls whenever the target of the skill roll might find you attractive (i.e., they should be of the same or similar gender and have the appropriate sexual orientation).

You can also gain additional points for other attributes if you accept a like penalty, which can go up to -5. And if your players think that that might be a good "dump stat", you should show them this comic to make them realize just what a low Appearance stat will mean...

 

[nute]

Or just do away with the concept of beauty altogether. Assume D&D exists in the world your mom always tried to convince you existed, where "it's what's inside that matters". With a varied selection of sentient races all meeting in a mishmashed culture sharing a common language, physical beauty even as a concept could be alien.

CHA being a force of personality, however, is universal. It's more of a presence than anything else.

 

[Klaus]

Elves are described as being beautiful, yet they get no Cha bonus, *and* a Con penalty. Fey creatures are often beautiful, but tend to have low Con scores.

If anything, linking appearance to Constitution and Charisma only benefits gnomes, who get a Con bonus and no Cha penalty. You'd think their favored class is Bard...

waitaminute... aranoid:

 

[Rhun]

I like (CON + CHA)/2 = Comliness.

Physical health and a healthy personality are both attractive; an aggrogate of the two makes for an easy beauty stat.

So Hill Giants are pretty good looking in your game? And the average Fire Giant is hot (no pun intended)?

I think linking CON to physical beauty is a bad idea, because a lot of monster types easily outstrip CHA with their CON.

Personally, I don't think physical appearance should not be based on any ability score.

 

[Delta]

Well, I'm a traditionalist and I like having Charisma be a partial measure of attractiveness. I like having one of the 6 ability scores immediately giving me a partial mental picture of what the character looks like. Again, I'm not into writing a 2-page background story for every (or any) character -- I like brevity, and having an ability score tell me about appearance is perfect!

From OD&D: "Charisma is a combination of appearance, personality, and so forth." Note that the appearance aspect is actually the first and foremost item historically mentioned in defining D&D's Charisma stat. The fact that it's slipped away over time doesn't change what the initial design goal was: and the in-game benefit was specifically the very important reaction and loyalty rolls in the game.

If it were up to me, my main grief with modern Charisma is that, indeed, it doesn't make sense to use as a spellcasting statistic for Sorcerers. It's an obvious shoehorn to make up "something" that uses Charisma for the prime requisite. I'd prefer to fix Sorcerers is this regard and not re-define Charisma for them.

Note that even in AD&D Charisma and Comeliness were definitely still "linked" through a significant bonus to the roll -- the intention was to explicate exactly how much of your Charisma was due to Comeliness.