Pathfinder 1E Lisa Stevens, CEO of Paizo, commenting about ENWorld

[Erik Mona]

I can't speak for Lisa specifically, but I'd like to respond to Jack99's suggestion that there is something akin to a "mighty Paizo marketing machine."

That's just silly. This is an off-hand comment by Lisa describing her view of this site, not some marketing push to steal Russ's customers or something. Lordy!

The "Paizo marketing machine" is basically me and Josh Frost doing our best to get the word out about our stuff in what amounts to our free time between conventions, publishing, and setting up our big new OP program. I've seen a few suggestions lately that we have some sort of full-time marketing staff or that we are a juggernaut or something, and that's just not the case.

I've been a member of the EN World community for almost as long as there has been an EN World community. Since the announcement of 4e there have been periods during which 3.x players would have felt like they were in the "oppressed" minority, and there have been periods where 4.0 folks probably felt like it was coming at them from all sides.

Right now things seem to have balanced themselves rather nicely.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing

PS: I don't think Russ or the moderators have as much control over the messageboard community as many people (perhaps including Lisa) believe. An edition change is a hugely complex beast, and there's little any person or team of people can do to predict and or control how people feel about it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

But I think the problem is really that some people just don't want to accept that the discussion is always on current topics. And the current topic is the new edition of D&D. That doesn't mean that 3E is dead, but it is no longer what people need to talk about. They did that for 8 years, and think about how many topics have been repeated over and over. Only when new products launched, a lot of new discussion was spurned. But the new product is no longer 3E, it's 4E.

I think this is a very important point that can be easily overlooked.

Especially because "3e" wasn't one monolithic whole!

From the point of view as a 'user/contributor' of ENworld rather than an admin; prior to the launch of 4e I was finding less and less of interest to me in the D&D forums - because the games I played and ran in used the core rules and psionics rules (basically what you would find in the SRD) and nothing else. Discussion and debate in the forums moved on to stuff from the Complete X books, Book of Nine Swords and so forth, which were subjects which were current and of great interest to the majority of ENworld, but which I didn't know the rules for, didn't have the rules and wasn't going to get and use the rules as either a player or DM!

So it is worth remembering that discussion *always* focuses on the new - and in that respect the 4e discussion is almost part of a continuum of change rather than shifting from one bloc to another. Happily 4e has its own whole rules forum to prevent 4e stuff swamping 3e stuff when people come to talk about rules and house rules.

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

By the way, there have been a couple of posts in this thread which have been uncharitable at best and edging towards incivility at worst.

Please remember to express your thoughts politely and well.

Cheers

 

[Cergorach]

Morrus and Enworld it self have never been 'pro' anything, we've always been allowed to discuss any game we wanted to. Morrus/Enworld are just facilitators for the RPG community, it just so happens that the community is focused on D&D. That there are factions within the the community that are pro 3e or pro 4e is just part of the internet. We've had a 0e faction here for a long while now, never really had a problem with that.

 

[Morrus]

People who like 3e and dislike 4e think ENWorld is anti-3e.

People who like 4e and dislike 3e think ENWorld is anti-4e.

I'd say things are fine, and any supposed "bias" is completely in the observer's head.

-O

Yup. I absolutely agree. There are people firmly convinced that ENW is anti "their" camp on both sides. I'm not personally pro or anti either - Im trying 4E at the moment, but am not convinced yet that I won't go back to 3.5.

As for news, etc - well, I post what the news is. Big releases are news. I can't invent news of non-existent 3.5 releases just to keep people happy! And I'll happily post any news that people send me scoops about.

Interestingly, I've emailed Paizo more than a couple of times about facilitating Pathfinder more here, but either the email addresses they have registered here don't work, or they're ignoring me! Nevertheless, I'd love to have regular and interesting Pathfinder news on the front page. Hell, I even have a link to Pathfinder on the front page.

 

[Jack99]

I can't speak for Lisa specifically, but I'd like to respond to Jack99's suggestion that there is something akin to a "mighty Paizo marketing machine."

That's just silly. This is an off-hand comment by Lisa describing her view of this site, not some marketing push to steal Russ's customers or something. Lordy!

The "Paizo marketing machine" is basically me and Josh Frost doing our best to get the word out about our stuff in what amounts to our free time between conventions, publishing, and setting up our big new OP program. I've seen a few suggestions lately that we have some sort of full-time marketing staff or that we are a juggernaut or something, and that's just not the case.

Just to be clear, I specifically said that it probably wasn't any big. Oh, and when you are CEO (or whatever her title is) you should watch your "offhand" remarks about competitors, because.. well, that should be obvious

They are merely the latest in the pretty blatant Paizo marketing machine (if it is big enough to be called a machine).

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Posting a calm, reasonable critique of a game, and stating that one's position on said game cannot be moved by means of argument, does not given anyone the divine right to *attack* the *person* (not the game, or another game, or whatever) and get away with it.

Except that, on these forums it does, apparently.

Lisa Stevens definitely has the right of it, sadly.

This is a discussion forum not a blog. If you speak, you will have your words discussed. Otherwise, why are you expressing yourself here? Trying to deny that dynamic is succeeding at wasting everyone's time and painting yourself a troll.

I think the idea that ENWorld is blatantly pro-4E and anti-3E is wrong. Certainly the forum has a number of committed and obnoxious advocates for either edition, and certainly people feel persecuted or appalled by them but that happens on either side.

I also don't think Lisa is necessarilly commenting on this.

What Lisa seems to be saying, though, is that maintaining a solidly anti-4E and pro-3E stance, which the decidely unsolid on anything ENWorld did not do, would have helped ENWorlds .pdf sales.

That argument may be accurate. It certainly ignores a lot of other harms that policy would have done for ENWorld.

 

[Aus_Snow]

This is a discussion forum not a blog. If you speak, you will have your words discussed. Otherwise, why are you expressing yourself here? Trying to deny that dynamic is succeeding at wasting everyone's time and painting yourself a troll.

Read what I posted, and what you in fact quoted, again.

Having one's words discussed was not what I had, or have, a problem with.

And, for that matter, in the light of recent developments, I will gladly retract *part* of my previous post. It was the way I felt, and what I thought about things, at that time. Not without reason, I might add.

But please, in future, kindly don't take my words totally out of contaxt again, or just ignore key sections (even when quoting them in their entirety, which is a little unusual as these things go) to suit some marvellous 'counter-argument' you feel compelled to post.

It's that kind of thing I *don't* appreciate. And I'm not alone in that.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I was not happy about 4E when it was announced or for some months afterwards, yet I felt that Morrus and the rest of the staff at ENWorld did their best to steer this site and the community that frequents it through troubled waters without alienating one side or the other. It was not an enviable position to be in and I think they did a good job of it and continue to do so.

 

[Psion]

I think a look at any of the various "edition preference" polls will reveal to you the actual bias of the boards fairly accurately. Most current active ENWorld posters favor 4e. The boards aren't as blatantly pro-4e as the RPGnet d20 forums, but I think claims that the slant is "all in your head" doesn't match up with the self professed preferences of the members.

I am glad Morrus changed the page titles to omit an edition; that helped remove some appearance of bias or exclusivity on the part of the board.