Literal reading vs common sense - which should take precedence?

[Jeriatric_ceasa]

Actually from what I can tell from reading the PHB, a natural 20 is no longer an automatic hit. It's possible I missed something, but even in the section on critical hits it says a 20 is only a crit if the roll would have been high enough to hit the target.

Natural 20 is still an auto hit. See PH p.276 under attack results.

 

[FireLance]

Natural 20 is still an auto hit. See PH p.276 under attack results.

Yes, still an auto-hit, just not an auto-crit.

However, now that PC attack bonuses are expected to keep pace with their opponents' defences, and vice-versa, I wonder whether it is worthwhile to keep that "natural 20 is an auto-hit" sacred cow. How often will PCs be fighting opponents that they would not be able to hit on a natural 20 anyway? And for the rare cases where such situations come up in game, I would rather the PCs try to rack up attack bonuses (through flanking, Aid Another, etc.), remove penalties (e.g. making heal checks to trigger saving throws) or just retreat and come back when they are better prepared, than stick around in the faint hopes of rolling a string of 20s.

 

[FadedC]

Yes, still an auto-hit, just not an auto-crit.

However, now that PC attack bonuses are expected to keep pace with their opponents' defences, and vice-versa, I wonder whether it is worthwhile to keep that "natural 20 is an auto-hit" sacred cow. How often will PCs be fighting opponents that they would not be able to hit on a natural 20 anyway? And for the rare cases where such situations come up in game, I would rather the PCs try to rack up attack bonuses (through flanking, Aid Another, etc.), remove penalties (e.g. making heal checks to trigger saving throws) or just retreat and come back when they are better prepared, than stick around in the faint hopes of rolling a string of 20s.

Yeah that's why I thought that they might have removed that rule, a situation should never come up when somebody needs more then a 20 to hit. If your that much stronger then your oponent then your oponent should be "upgraded" to a minion with a higher level. But I guess there might be times when a blinded enemy with -2 to hit attacks somebody with a +2 power bonus to their AC.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

I'm a little confused because I feel like the original post is really talking about how the abilities are depicted in the fictional game world.

I don't think the fact that a halfling could shift a Tarrasque in game terms is the same thing as the halfling literally shoving a gigantic lizard in the game fiction. You can describe it any way you want in the fiction, as long as it in some way matches up with the rules outcome.

Off the top of my head, "I slash at the tarrasque with quick cuts around its ankles, so that it rears back to strike." There ya go, end result, halfling took an action and the end result is the Tarrasque shifted.

In fact, that move could also be described as "I attack at the exact moment that the Tarrasque rears back". Yes, in that case you've got a player describing something that happens to something outside of his PC (that the tarrasque moved, right then), but there's nothing inherent to roleplaying or to the rules that prevents this.

The stuff in the "game world" is imaginary, and while it should be plausible, it's often pretty easy to imagine plausible results if you don't restrict yourself to only picturing an exact description of the final rules outcome.

As far as the cat example ... it only applies if you have a cat PC. "Just a cat" is scenery, nobody has any investment in it as a character. Applying the rules doesn't seem appropriate there. Whether or not you think that's how the game should have been designed, that's the deal with 4e. The rules are there to help referee interactions between the PCs and "everything else". If the PCs aren't involved, then why are the rules involved? Just for fun?

Like the minion debate, it comes down to whether or not rules should act as physics or as constraints on outcomes. 3.x acted as physics, but I always felt like older editions didn't, so in that respect 4e "clicks" for me.

 

[firesnakearies]

Real life animals live in a magic bag, not needing food, water, or air, and come out in a ball of rage and fury when you call on them?

Well they did, but then PETA got involved, and lawyers, and now I'm no longer allowed to have pets....