Scott DeWar
Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
Uh, why are things like scribe scroll disallowed?
Pathfinder 1E Living Pathfinder
- Thread starter SelcSilverhand
- Start date
HolyMan
Thy wounds are healed!
Awesome to hear Scott
And I think that item creation is disallowed do to the keeping track nightmare it would be LOL
HM
Maidhc O Casain
Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
Also due to the power creep and the 'easy money maker syndrome.'
HolyMan
Thy wounds are healed!
Wanted to post this discussion here as I don't think we should fill up the tavern thread with all this.
I need to know what the guidelines for rewarding treasure are to be. Especially when it isn't something normal like you found a +1 longsword.
Ok we are trying to have adventures give enough treasure to keep all characters around their Wealth by Level (Table 12-4 pg.399 CORE). So if the characters level up (first lvl to second) during an adventure. And it gives them 700gp each for time gp than the extra treasure should give everyone another 300gp each to round it off correct.
If this is so than the items actual value would be up to the person who has it/wants it. Say Zelena keeps the comb as a memento. Her total wealth from the adventure is 1,000gp and she goes and spends say 800 of that on equipment. Then the player can decide that the comb is worth anything from 1gp -200gp and will list it as such (then I will edit it's value in the loot section of the game, for upkeep) then list the characters other remaining money.
So I need to know if we are following the Wealth by Level as a base, or a maximum, or something else.
HM
I need to know what the guidelines for rewarding treasure are to be. Especially when it isn't something normal like you found a +1 longsword.
Ok we are trying to have adventures give enough treasure to keep all characters around their Wealth by Level (Table 12-4 pg.399 CORE). So if the characters level up (first lvl to second) during an adventure. And it gives them 700gp each for time gp than the extra treasure should give everyone another 300gp each to round it off correct.
If this is so than the items actual value would be up to the person who has it/wants it. Say Zelena keeps the comb as a memento. Her total wealth from the adventure is 1,000gp and she goes and spends say 800 of that on equipment. Then the player can decide that the comb is worth anything from 1gp -200gp and will list it as such (then I will edit it's value in the loot section of the game, for upkeep) then list the characters other remaining money.
So I need to know if we are following the Wealth by Level as a base, or a maximum, or something else.
HM
Aldern Foxglove
First Post
First off I think its important to point out that DMs should be giving out considerably more than wealth per level. Wealth per level does not include the value of expended consumables, expenses, or the 50% loss rate from selling most items. I'd say 150% wbl should be a minimum, perhaps less if DMs are specifically tailoring items to the PCs in their group.
Its problematic I suppose. I would assume that on a given adventure characters are to receive equal shares? If so it would be hard to stick to wbl with characters at different xp totals or even potentially levels. I am also sure some games will take longer than others, whether due to pacing or simple post rates, and will thus give characters greater time rewards per level gained. Adopting HM's sensible proposal would lead to these slower adventures giving less loot effectively.
You also have the issue of value versus wealth. If we have two characters Hank and Eric - "It's a Dungeons and Dragons ride!" - and Hank keeps only items he finds where as Eric sells all the items he finds to be able to select exactly the items he wants then Hank naturally should have a higher wealth than Eric. On the other hand Hank might have found more appropriate items and not have needed to trade out, so its hardly appropriate for him to have twice Eric's wealth.
I am firmly of the belief that a character should not get less because their kind of preferred items do not come up much. On the other hand a frugal character who use what they find rather than sells everything to get exactly what they wan should probably be able to edge ahead of wealth per level. I know that in 3.5 play bards, and druids suffered from this fairly often - bards suffered a great deal because magical musical instruments were so staggeringly useless for their price and well intentioned DMs would give them out "for the bard".
So a tough issue. I'd suggest we don't operate by a hard and fast rule, but rather simply keep an eye on characters at level up and planned wealth in adventures. Treat wbl as a guideline and not worry about it too much unless a character seems to be well out of kilter. The main control should be that appropriate amounts of wealth are handed out in adventures imo, based on the intended level of the adventure.
We might also consider allowing PCs to come up with wish lists for items - maybe 2 or 3 at any given time. I find this enables DMs to better cater for a diverse group slipping desired items in where appropriate and helps prevent a magic mart feel where everything is sold off for desired gear.
Its problematic I suppose. I would assume that on a given adventure characters are to receive equal shares? If so it would be hard to stick to wbl with characters at different xp totals or even potentially levels. I am also sure some games will take longer than others, whether due to pacing or simple post rates, and will thus give characters greater time rewards per level gained. Adopting HM's sensible proposal would lead to these slower adventures giving less loot effectively.
You also have the issue of value versus wealth. If we have two characters Hank and Eric - "It's a Dungeons and Dragons ride!" - and Hank keeps only items he finds where as Eric sells all the items he finds to be able to select exactly the items he wants then Hank naturally should have a higher wealth than Eric. On the other hand Hank might have found more appropriate items and not have needed to trade out, so its hardly appropriate for him to have twice Eric's wealth.
I am firmly of the belief that a character should not get less because their kind of preferred items do not come up much. On the other hand a frugal character who use what they find rather than sells everything to get exactly what they wan should probably be able to edge ahead of wealth per level. I know that in 3.5 play bards, and druids suffered from this fairly often - bards suffered a great deal because magical musical instruments were so staggeringly useless for their price and well intentioned DMs would give them out "for the bard".
So a tough issue. I'd suggest we don't operate by a hard and fast rule, but rather simply keep an eye on characters at level up and planned wealth in adventures. Treat wbl as a guideline and not worry about it too much unless a character seems to be well out of kilter. The main control should be that appropriate amounts of wealth are handed out in adventures imo, based on the intended level of the adventure.
We might also consider allowing PCs to come up with wish lists for items - maybe 2 or 3 at any given time. I find this enables DMs to better cater for a diverse group slipping desired items in where appropriate and helps prevent a magic mart feel where everything is sold off for desired gear.
Scott DeWar
Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
I weould think guideline as it would be unfeaseable to have a gemencrest gold comb just laying about. I have LEW characters are are well below the book guideline for their level.
HolyMan
Thy wounds are healed!
Great ideas AFg
My Kobold's Keep game had very little, actually no items in it at all. I was just going to allow everyone to find some treasure and trade it in to go shopping.
But my newest game already has 4 tengu in it and they "do" have items so I need to watch out for what you said about someone keeping it to use and another selling it for half.
I think watching the characters and if someone falls way behind then maybe a small encounter or special gift from a mysterious stranger (a lead-in to an adventure itself LOL) could be possible.
The problem with listing exactly everything the group will find in an adventure is the randomness of the Time GP. No way to know how long or how much a group will earn (I didn't know my Kobold's Keep game would go long enough to let everyone level up).
So that's why I would like some guidelines for future adventures. I think I listed my treasure for Bats in the Belfry on the really high side, we will see.
HM
My Kobold's Keep game had very little, actually no items in it at all. I was just going to allow everyone to find some treasure and trade it in to go shopping.
But my newest game already has 4 tengu in it and they "do" have items so I need to watch out for what you said about someone keeping it to use and another selling it for half.
I think watching the characters and if someone falls way behind then maybe a small encounter or special gift from a mysterious stranger (a lead-in to an adventure itself LOL) could be possible.
The problem with listing exactly everything the group will find in an adventure is the randomness of the Time GP. No way to know how long or how much a group will earn (I didn't know my Kobold's Keep game would go long enough to let everyone level up).
So that's why I would like some guidelines for future adventures. I think I listed my treasure for Bats in the Belfry on the really high side, we will see.
HM
Last edited:
Aldern Foxglove
First Post
Yes I've always disliked that about the living worlds here, wealth tended to be well below recommended levels. To me this serves only to make them less fun, and to slow down XP gain since generally speaking characters with higher wealth can take on more difficult challenges, etc.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking low wealth per level generally speaking makes games slightly less fun. Am I? And to my mind being over wealth per level by a x amount is vastly preferable to being under by x amount.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking low wealth per level generally speaking makes games slightly less fun. Am I? And to my mind being over wealth per level by a x amount is vastly preferable to being under by x amount.
Aldern Foxglove
First Post
Aldern Foxglove
First Post
On a different note...
Has anyone advertised LPF anywhere else, on Paizo.com for example? I suspect that if its permissible to recruit for games on other sites we might get a fair few from there - I tried there before coming here and there were far more players than games starting.
I was wondering if there's anyway of knowing when players are likely to be free for an adventure? I can't think of a good one really, I know that its very difficult to say how long a given adventure is going to take, and whether the group will want to continue with the same DM on a different adventure, etc. I'm looking to run one in the near future, but it seems to be a bit futile planning the fine details until I have a general idea of when players might be available. Working title "Soul Indiscretion" btw, delving into Venza's shadowy underbelly to uncover the architect of a recent spree of grizzly murders!
Has anyone advertised LPF anywhere else, on Paizo.com for example? I suspect that if its permissible to recruit for games on other sites we might get a fair few from there - I tried there before coming here and there were far more players than games starting.
I was wondering if there's anyway of knowing when players are likely to be free for an adventure? I can't think of a good one really, I know that its very difficult to say how long a given adventure is going to take, and whether the group will want to continue with the same DM on a different adventure, etc. I'm looking to run one in the near future, but it seems to be a bit futile planning the fine details until I have a general idea of when players might be available. Working title "Soul Indiscretion" btw, delving into Venza's shadowy underbelly to uncover the architect of a recent spree of grizzly murders!
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