Logic behind sales of "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk"?

[Scott_Rouse]

Okay. What type of test is it and what criteria will determine the success?

Is there going to be a meter that we can see? Is there going to be an ongoing "Greyhawk Check In" so that people can see how well it's selling?

Of it is just more lip service?

Deleted

 

[Sammael]

...or if they'd decided to let one of the two existing settings go on hiatus for a while...

FR is already on a hiatus. They haven't published a FR sourcebook in almost a year now (since Dragons of Faerûn), and we haven't had a regional sourcebook in two years (Since CoS: Waterdeep). The only thing even remotely resembling a FR sourcebook in the near future is the timeline thingy, which is a variant of the timeline that's been available online FOR FREE for years now. In other words, if you don't buy pre-fab adventures (and I don't) or novels (and I don't), FR is a dead setting.

 

[Mortellan]

Core D&D should be considered a setting as well just on the sheer amount of content.

That's the problem. The sheer amount of content (crunch) over so many books by so many different authors makes it like finding a needle in a haystack for actual useful game world content (fluff).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

FR is already on a hiatus. They haven't published a FR sourcebook in almost a year now (since Dragons of Faerûn), and we haven't had a regional sourcebook in two years (Since CoS: Waterdeep). The only thing even remotely resembling a FR sourcebook in the near future is the timeline thingy, which is a variant of the timeline that's been available online FOR FREE for years now. In other words, if you don't buy pre-fab adventures (and I don't) or novels (and I don't), FR is a dead setting.

I'm not sure if it counts as a dead setting when you're voluntarily not buying the stuff they're putting out, especially since the adventure-thingies they've done recently have setting and important timeline-advancing stuff in them.

If I choose not to buy any albums by a band, it doesn't mean they've stopped releasing new songs.

 

[Venator]

We give away for free more Greyhawk content through the RPGA than most other companies publish in for sale product every year. We also spend more time, effort and money running the Living Greyhawk for the RPGA than any other setting or even D&D minis. To put that into perspective we put more time/money support into LG than the rest of the D&D gaming line combined.

We know how many people play LG and we have a good idea of the market size for the setting.

So if all that time/money/effort is going into Greyhawk via the Living games, why not bite the bullet and put out a Greyhawk setting hardcover? Are not enough people playing LG to justify WotC getting behind a book?

I'd imagine putting out the Setting and following it up with several books, each looking at a few of the different regions, it would not only appeal to the LG'ers but to all of the fans of Greyhawk that do *not* play LG.

edit: Also, if its not overstepping my bounds, how/why is it that you claim that WotC has a good idea of the market size for the setting? How much of that idea is based off of data collected from LG or other RPGA events? Are there other indicators other than sales of Dragon and Dungeon and RPGA events like LG?

 

[haakon1]

Jason Bulmahn
Berserk Greyhawk Fanatic
Managing Editor of Dragon

Me at the FLGS this afternoon, after reading the banner headline on July's Dungeon "Spinecastle: Behind Enemy Lines in Greyhawk": Oh cool!

Game Store guy: Oh well, there won't be too many more of those.

Me (handing over cash): Yeah, no kidding. What's that thing on the cover, a Jawa?

Game Story guy: Huh, sure looks like it.

 

[Nepenthe]

WotC seems to have a hard time with settings. They don't seem able to design settings to fill needs. The Realms is a huge, sprawling, high magic realm. Why isn't there a smaller, low-magic setting that's easier for a GM to master?

As Mr. Rouse suggested, the "third" world Dragonlance does (and will for about 10 months more) fill this niche. Apparently it just carries too much baggage for a lot of people to consider it on its own merits (and AM I glad I gave it a second chance last year!)

 

[Dire Bare]

I would argue that the "two setting" notion is incorrect since currently we support Forgotten Realms, Eberron, & Dragonlance (licensed to MWP). Core D&D should be considered a setting as well just on the sheer amount of content. There is a belief that TSR in the 2nd edition days over-saturated the market with settings that split the market into to many smaller customer groups but that was with 9 plus settings. There is no belief that the rule is "2 only".

Now does that mean every setting gets a setting 300 page campaign setting book, 12 supplements a year, plus adventures? No. But there certainly is a room to provide varying levels of support.

When we have discussions about settings support Greyhawk is usually on the table.

But there are always two . . . . a master, and an apprentice . . . .

 

[Sammael]

I'm not sure if it counts as a dead setting when you're voluntarily not buying the stuff they're putting out, especially since the adventure-thingies they've done recently have setting and important timeline-advancing stuff in them.

Do you really think anyone who doesn't use published adventures should buy 90+ page books for $30 for 1-4 pages of setting info?

If I choose not to buy any albums by a band, it doesn't mean they've stopped releasing new songs.

This comparison is so irrelevant it's not even funny. Particularly nowadays that very few people even buy albums anymore. If WotC releases ONLY the setting-appropriate stuff in a "best of" type of book, I will buy it. But I won't buy whole adventures (regardless of their quality) for the sake of 2 pages of setting info.

EDIT: it would be a more accurate comparison if you said that the band has completely changed its genre, but includes 1 old-school song per album, and expects old-school listeners to buy the whole album for that 1 song.

 

[zoroaster100]

I also find it ridiculous to base Greyhawk's popularity on this product. I love Greyhawk and loved having the Dungeon Adventure paths in Greyhawk. I loved the Core Beliefs articles and Demonomicon articles in Dragon which often had references to Greyhawk. I loved the many other adventures set in Greyhawk in Dungeon magazine. I love getting the detailed gazette like articles on geographical or cultural parts of Greyhawk that show up on different Greyhawk fan sites and would love to see official products providing this kind of support with proffessional production values. But I have little interest in the Castle Greyhawk megaadventure. Honestly, Castle Greyhawk has always been one of the least interesting aspects of the world of Greyhawk. I'm much more interested in the Free City itself, or Iuz, the Great Kingdom, Furyondy and Nyrond, the Scarlet Brotherhood, the Pomarj orcs, the Suloise High Mages, the drow of Erelhei Cinlu and what other drow cities there might be under Greyhawk, Vecna's life as a lich, etc.