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Logos's The Destroyers **Recruiting**
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ShaggySpellsword
First Post
So, have I taken any damage or was I just bull-rushed a few times?
Also, which condition do the ghouls inflict? I don't see paralysis on the list in the PHB. Is it immobilized? Because if it is, our dragonborn can still do stuff, he just can't move.
Also, which condition do the ghouls inflict? I don't see paralysis on the list in the PHB. Is it immobilized? Because if it is, our dragonborn can still do stuff, he just can't move.
The first round you were just bullrushed a bunch of times shaggy, and the condition is immobilized (its listed at the bottom of my second round post now)
I put the big post out in kind a hurry and I slipped in the OOC stuff that I really should be discussing so here it is, I think kobold stew summed up my position pretty well so here I'm going to post his post then respond
Okay Hopefully, not taking things to out of context (and please correct me if i am)
This is the first combat, and part of the reason why i'm doing it is to give everyone a chance to see both how I dm and how i run a play by post.
About Maps: I'm not all for maps because the options I have had presented to me have not been great. either I'm formating a picture/text/spreadsheet repeatedly to show everyone where everything is or I'm forced to keep up a server to do the same. If someone can show me an option that doesn't force me to do those things I will consider it. That means that distances are going to be abstracted a little, and yes we are loosing some of the preciseness of 4th edition.
as far as loosing your chance at an exploit, so did others. While this is an IC fight, OOC its real purpose is to let you all get threw a fight with me dming, to get the swing of things persay. advancing the fight lets me get to the real purpose as opposed to the fidgety beginings. Will I plan on doing this everytime? Of Course Not.
The reason I said a ghoul hits Ac of 18 rather than saying it missed indulgence is that because of the nature of the short buffs , the 18 on your character sheet may or may not be what your AC really is. I find it easier to say what it hits, and let you figure out if you where damaged or not (because you should know your mods and buffs better than i do ).
As far as the Warlord and tactical element, I think your overreacting a little bit.First of even with the autoflanks (which I think is mischracterizing what im doing )I don't think it affects the warlords powers any more or less than any others. The warlord powers excel at two things Healing and Granting Extra Actions, which is precisely what you are still going to be doing.
I see your case a little bit clearer with the wolfpack tactics, but it was never designed to give you a flank (if the other pc starts next to you, a shift will not achieve flanking, if the other pc starts next to the monster the shift may give flanking but chances are either you already had the flank or it will not give the flank, which means that warlord (or other's) movement would be required to flank anyway which is what my 'auto-flanking' more or less does now. What little I've played the wolfpack tactics it has been used mostly defensivly, allowing a injured teamate to shift away from the monster of occassional a defender by the warlord to shift towards the monster, not for the flank but in general to get in the fray.
That's a little long, but i really don't think that the warlord (or any of the pc's ) are hurt by the autoflanking) But i would like to hear opinions on it, it is easily one of the things i am most open to changing/discarding
either way, I hope that help explains what i am doing, thank you for your feedback and I hope to hear more from others.
Logos
I put the big post out in kind a hurry and I slipped in the OOC stuff that I really should be discussing so here it is, I think kobold stew summed up my position pretty well so here I'm going to post his post then respond
Okay Hopefully, not taking things to out of context (and please correct me if i am)
This is the first combat, and part of the reason why i'm doing it is to give everyone a chance to see both how I dm and how i run a play by post.
About Maps: I'm not all for maps because the options I have had presented to me have not been great. either I'm formating a picture/text/spreadsheet repeatedly to show everyone where everything is or I'm forced to keep up a server to do the same. If someone can show me an option that doesn't force me to do those things I will consider it. That means that distances are going to be abstracted a little, and yes we are loosing some of the preciseness of 4th edition.
as far as loosing your chance at an exploit, so did others. While this is an IC fight, OOC its real purpose is to let you all get threw a fight with me dming, to get the swing of things persay. advancing the fight lets me get to the real purpose as opposed to the fidgety beginings. Will I plan on doing this everytime? Of Course Not.
The reason I said a ghoul hits Ac of 18 rather than saying it missed indulgence is that because of the nature of the short buffs , the 18 on your character sheet may or may not be what your AC really is. I find it easier to say what it hits, and let you figure out if you where damaged or not (because you should know your mods and buffs better than i do ).
As far as the Warlord and tactical element, I think your overreacting a little bit.First of even with the autoflanks (which I think is mischracterizing what im doing )I don't think it affects the warlords powers any more or less than any others. The warlord powers excel at two things Healing and Granting Extra Actions, which is precisely what you are still going to be doing.
I see your case a little bit clearer with the wolfpack tactics, but it was never designed to give you a flank (if the other pc starts next to you, a shift will not achieve flanking, if the other pc starts next to the monster the shift may give flanking but chances are either you already had the flank or it will not give the flank, which means that warlord (or other's) movement would be required to flank anyway which is what my 'auto-flanking' more or less does now. What little I've played the wolfpack tactics it has been used mostly defensivly, allowing a injured teamate to shift away from the monster of occassional a defender by the warlord to shift towards the monster, not for the flank but in general to get in the fray.
That's a little long, but i really don't think that the warlord (or any of the pc's ) are hurt by the autoflanking) But i would like to hear opinions on it, it is easily one of the things i am most open to changing/discarding
either way, I hope that help explains what i am doing, thank you for your feedback and I hope to hear more from others.
Logos
Walking Dad
First Post
I'm fine with your gaming style. It may be harder if I would play a fey warlock (lots of teleport), but I'm really interested if it is possible to play 4e without a map.
OnlytheStrong
Explorer
I think it's going to be difficult to visualize where people are without some sort of visual aid. My rogue is going to be shifting and teleporting around the battle. It's okay though, I can live without a map.
I'm not too sure how the combat is running yet though. I think I just haven't totally figured it out yet.
I'm not too sure how the combat is running yet though. I think I just haven't totally figured it out yet.
Hi Logos,
thanks for your time on all this.
I'll answer your points briefly.
I still don't see where the AC 18 comes from, but whatever. I also think we have different understandings of how wolf packs attack.
As for the at will, I saw it as offensive: in combat characters can shift one square, and wolf pack allows a second square, therefore two characters (e.g. warlord and rogue) side by side can get into flanking (and combat advantage) without drawing any attacks of opportunity. That seems hugely powerful, and the abstraction voids that. As it is, it should allow a flanked character to move to avoid the flank, but it would only be re-established before the next round if I understand you. If there is a worthwhile use, I do not see it. But I shall look for it.
KS
edit: Losing the map also undermines any choices made about movement speed, doesn't it? there is no benefit to having worked to keep a 6 move (as with eladrin armor), or the movement benefits of being dwarf or elf. That sounds like a complaint -- it isn't, but the increased abstraction will have significant effects on 4e combat, I think.
thanks for your time on all this.
I'll answer your points briefly.
I still don't see where the AC 18 comes from, but whatever. I also think we have different understandings of how wolf packs attack.
As for the at will, I saw it as offensive: in combat characters can shift one square, and wolf pack allows a second square, therefore two characters (e.g. warlord and rogue) side by side can get into flanking (and combat advantage) without drawing any attacks of opportunity. That seems hugely powerful, and the abstraction voids that. As it is, it should allow a flanked character to move to avoid the flank, but it would only be re-established before the next round if I understand you. If there is a worthwhile use, I do not see it. But I shall look for it.
KS
edit: Losing the map also undermines any choices made about movement speed, doesn't it? there is no benefit to having worked to keep a 6 move (as with eladrin armor), or the movement benefits of being dwarf or elf. That sounds like a complaint -- it isn't, but the increased abstraction will have significant effects on 4e combat, I think.
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Hmmm, interesting responce.
I didn't really consider the wolfpack shift and then the persons own shift. It changes it a bit but I think in the long run anything that can be done with a shift chances are could be done with a regular move within limits and still favours the your shift (for moving away from adjacent enemies ). Why don't we play with it a bit and when we level up to paragon you have the option of retraining your at wills for free? Would you consider that fair?
( I think we both need to see perhaps wolf pack tactics in use a bit more before we can fairly judge one way or the other. It still seems to me that anything that can be done with shift/wolf pack could be done more or less the same as with a move action provoking oppurtunity attacks which are still in)
I think your edit, the bit of losing the tactical importance of speed , and some of the movement benefits of being an elf is closer to the mark, but the more important ability (resisting push/pull/prone and ignoring difficult terrain) are still there in my opinion. Is it different ? yes. Do I think any class or race is gonna get hosed? No
as far as the graphical aids, If you have something you use on other pbp by all means share it here where i can get my grubby little mitts on it. I think part of this is that I'm still warming up to this game, and my pbpfu is a little weak still. I'm working on it.
Logos
I didn't really consider the wolfpack shift and then the persons own shift. It changes it a bit but I think in the long run anything that can be done with a shift chances are could be done with a regular move within limits and still favours the your shift (for moving away from adjacent enemies ). Why don't we play with it a bit and when we level up to paragon you have the option of retraining your at wills for free? Would you consider that fair?
( I think we both need to see perhaps wolf pack tactics in use a bit more before we can fairly judge one way or the other. It still seems to me that anything that can be done with shift/wolf pack could be done more or less the same as with a move action provoking oppurtunity attacks which are still in)
I think your edit, the bit of losing the tactical importance of speed , and some of the movement benefits of being an elf is closer to the mark, but the more important ability (resisting push/pull/prone and ignoring difficult terrain) are still there in my opinion. Is it different ? yes. Do I think any class or race is gonna get hosed? No
as far as the graphical aids, If you have something you use on other pbp by all means share it here where i can get my grubby little mitts on it. I think part of this is that I'm still warming up to this game, and my pbpfu is a little weak still. I'm working on it.
Logos
Drowned Hero
First Post
Hi Logos --
I think we're on the same page now, and certainly I am very interested in the game, and in seeing how things play out. It's clear to me we understand each other's positions, and are working towards the same goal. I'll see if I can make a worthwhile suggestion for enhancing "pbpfu" (heh).
I'm also pleased you also use hosed as a verb (not in the OED!).
Down with ghouls, KS.
I think we're on the same page now, and certainly I am very interested in the game, and in seeing how things play out. It's clear to me we understand each other's positions, and are working towards the same goal. I'll see if I can make a worthwhile suggestion for enhancing "pbpfu" (heh).
I'm also pleased you also use hosed as a verb (not in the OED!).
Down with ghouls, KS.
ShaggySpellsword
First Post
I have a suggestion for helping the visualization.
Chess.
Basically, Logos can draw the map for his visual representations on a grid. It can just be graph paper, an XL spread sheet, whatever. Across the top he labels the columns A, B, C, etc. and down the sides he labels them 1, 2, 3, etc. We never have to see the map.
Then when he frist describes the room he can tell us that he are standing in squares A1, B2, B3, and C4. The monster are in certain squares, and furniture occupies certain squares. We cna then use these coordianate to map our own room.
When we describe or action OOC in an SBLOCK, we can use coordinates to specify where we move, and even the path we take (i.e. Djiminick moves A1-B1-C2-D3-E4 and then attacks ghoul in E5)
This way we can all know what is going on and feel like we are getting the full bang for our tactical buck without any image posting or image hosting.
What do you think?
Chess.
Basically, Logos can draw the map for his visual representations on a grid. It can just be graph paper, an XL spread sheet, whatever. Across the top he labels the columns A, B, C, etc. and down the sides he labels them 1, 2, 3, etc. We never have to see the map.
Then when he frist describes the room he can tell us that he are standing in squares A1, B2, B3, and C4. The monster are in certain squares, and furniture occupies certain squares. We cna then use these coordianate to map our own room.
When we describe or action OOC in an SBLOCK, we can use coordinates to specify where we move, and even the path we take (i.e. Djiminick moves A1-B1-C2-D3-E4 and then attacks ghoul in E5)
This way we can all know what is going on and feel like we are getting the full bang for our tactical buck without any image posting or image hosting.
What do you think?
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