Loki! (spoiler thread)

[Marc Radle]

I'm sensing a River Song-like approach to this villain which could lead to

Spoiler

his origins related to Nathaniel Richards, dad of Mr. Fantastic, and his use of Doom-tech, during or at the end of Majors' time as the character

-- or, then again, virtually anything else because, you know, multiverses.

My understanding is Nathaniel Richards is a far, far distant relative of Reed Richards / Mr. Fantastic, not his dad.

 

[Stalker0]

Ultimately opens the door on a lot of stuff.

it does seem weird that they have noted before the tv shows are not supposed to be critical to the movie storyline…than they unleash a villain whose power makes Thanos look like a wet fart and they literally restart the multiverse.

at the end of the day you could argue if free will has really been achieved…in a realm of infinite possibilities were every choice is represented…can any choice be considered meaningful?

I know the character does exist in the comics but it sort of felt like the looney tunes episode where daffy determines bugs bunny is the author behind it all. It’s like Loki literally just met the actual author of the MCU…who basically says it’s all planned and scripted.

regardless my original concern at episode 1 remains…every single decision made in the MCU to date was pointless, the characters had no free will at all…everything was dictated…nothing matters

 

[Davies]

t does seem weird that they have noted before the tv shows are not supposed to be critical to the movie storyline…

Whoever said so was clearly lying or had been lied to, because the final scenes of Black Widow heavily depend on knowledge from

Spoiler

Falcon & The Winter Soldier

regardless my original concern at episode 1 remains…every single decision made in the MCU to date was pointless, the characters had no free will at all…everything was dictated…nothing matters

Or, He Who Remains was lying about more than he admitted.

 

[Dire Bare]

regardless my original concern at episode 1 remains…every single decision made in the MCU to date was pointless, the characters had no free will at all…everything was dictated…nothing matters

It's not that folks didn't have free will . . . it's just that if you made the "wrong" choice, you were pruned . . .

And now that He Who Remains is dead and the multiverse has returned . . . it has returned along the entire timeline! Free will (without the consequences of pruning) is restored!

It's the mind-bending nature of time travel stories. When Captain America decided to protect Bucky and fight against Iron Man . . . did he do that as the correct choice along the "Sacred Timeline"? Or did he do that while the multiverse was in existence, and anything was possible? The answer is, of course . . . YES!

When it comes to ultimate possibility removing all meaning from our choices and actions . . . I think that's a point-of-view someone could reasonably develop if they were aware of the infinite multiverse. But . . . even if there are an infinite number of alternate DireBares out there, the choices I make and their consequences still matter very much TO MY LIFE, on my timeline! Or at least, that's how I look at it.

 

[Dire Bare]

it does seem weird that they have noted before the tv shows are not supposed to be critical to the movie storyline…than they unleash a villain whose power makes Thanos look like a wet fart and they literally restart the multiverse.

If you only watch the MCU movies, and skip the Disney+ shows . . . which many folks will do . . . you won't be missing out on any crucial plot points or get all confused about what's happened in-between the movies.

But the Disney+ shows give you a more complete story. Each show, so far, has been entertaining on it's own, and expands on some characters and mysteries of the MCU . . . but you don't need to see them to enjoy the movie universe.

I don't think the reverse is true, though. Imagine watching "Loki" without having seen any of the movies!! Same with WandaVision and The Falcon & the Winter Soldier.

 

[Marc Radle]

Ultimately opens the door on a lot of stuff.

it does seem weird that they have noted before the tv shows are not supposed to be critical to the movie storyline…than they unleash a villain whose power makes Thanos look like a wet fart and they literally restart the multiverse.

at the end of the day you could argue if free will has really been achieved…in a realm of infinite possibilities were every choice is represented…can any choice be considered meaningful?

I know the character does exist in the comics but it sort of felt like the looney tunes episode where daffy determines bugs bunny is the author behind it all. It’s like Loki literally just met the actual author of the MCU…who basically says it’s all planned and scripted.

regardless my original concern at episode 1 remains…every single decision made in the MCU to date was pointless, the characters had no free will at all…everything was dictated…nothing matters

No, Marvel actually said the exact opposite - these shows were designed from the beginning to be very tied in to the movies

 

[Older Beholder]

For all the craziness the only thing that really struck me as odd throughout the series was that no ever used the slow-time punch again after Hunter B-15 does it to Loki at the start of the first episode.

Another excellent series, though.

I'm looking forward to What if...? next month.
It makes a lot of sense for that to come next, given how Loki just ended.

 

[Umbran]

I have to ask ... how does resetting the time-line prevent the events from deviating in exactly the same way what caused them to be reset? It would seem that "deviant" means "not following the desired goal", in which case, folks have free decision making, but are not allowed to meaningfully exercise it. That is, if they "choose poorly" they are reset and must decide again.

I don't think that's it. This is classic "many worlds QM" stuff. Every time a choice is made¹ the universe splits, there's the "original" and a "variant" (where "variant" is the one He Who Remains doesn't want). Both exist in the overall multiverse. They simply remove the variant, pruning away the branch but allowing the trunk to proceed.




1. It isn't literally every choice, or you couldn't take finite times to prune. Many/most decisions are benign, and do not lead to timeline variance - whether you have a bologna or turkey sandwich is probably irrelevant. Some choices, however, cause branches. We just don't know how to characterize those

 

[pukunui]

Whoever said so was clearly lying or had been lied to, because the final scenes of Black Widow heavily depend on knowledge from

Spoiler

Falcon & The Winter Soldier

Not when you consider that Black Widow was originally meant to come out before The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

I don't think the reverse is true, though. Imagine watching "Loki" without having seen any of the movies!! Same with WandaVision and The Falcon & the Winter Soldier.

I had only ever seen both Guardians of the Galaxy movies, Captain Marvel and Black Panther before I watched WandaVision. I did watch the Legends shorts on both Wanda and Vision beforehand, but I enjoyed the show just fine without having seen Age of Ultron or anything else. In fact, that show is what made me want to watch everything else, whereas previously I'd not been that interested in the MCU.

After showing my girls all of WandaVision, I remember asking them if they wanted to see more of Wanda, Vision, Woo or Darcy. They picked Darcy, so we watched Thor. And now I've seen all the MCU movies except the Spider Man ones as well as all three Disney+ shows.

 

[MGibster]

at the end of the day you could argue if free will has really been achieved…in a realm of infinite possibilities were every choice is represented…can any choice be considered meaningful?

You're starting to sound like Rick Sanchez!