Long-term planning for D&D characters

[Jürgen Hubert]

Oh, I agree - but if you've just spent 2 years of college in physics (continuing that example ) only to discover "hey, I'd be better as a bio-engineer", not all of the resources you've just invested will carry over.

Oh, more than you'd think. For example, it's surprising how your experiences in modeling electrical currents within the human heart can be applied to describing international logistical networks. I'd say more, but the paper is still in review.

 

[Lanefan]

Getting away from this probably requires getting rid of about 99% of the various prestige classes out there, and replacing them as far as possible with options within the expanded-by-a-dozen-or-so base classes. However, this is A LOT OF WORK that I can fully accept most DM's aren't about to sit down and do...and the game designers aren't going to do it as they make their money selling new prestige classes...

But, once this change is done, it would (one hopes) become much easier to change your character's "plan" on the fly as your career develops, simply by taking options as the opportunity arises.

That said, I just have to recycle something I posted here some months back, or a close variant; it seemed to strike a chord at the time:

The problem with planning a 1-20 path for your character is assuming it's going to survive to *have* a 1-20 path; if you can safely make this assumption, your DM really needs to open a bigger can o' smackdown. Me, I plan for maybe 1-3, and see how long I last...

Lanefan

 

[Particle_Man]

Oh, more than you'd think. For example, it's surprising how your experiences in modeling electrical currents within the human heart can be applied to describing international logistical networks. I'd say more, but the paper is still in review.

Ok, but what if you decide you want to be a professional basketball player tomorrow? Won't that mean you have wasted some time up to now, if you can even meet the prerequisites at this stage in your life?

 

[gizmo33]

Ok, but what if you decide you want to be a professional basketball player tomorrow? Won't that mean you have wasted some time up to now, if you can even meet the prerequisites at this stage in your life?

Since this is a fantasy RPG, IMO it would be relevant to say that if Conan took up basketball, that he would be a pro-player by the next story at the latest. Conan was never out-classed in fighting in any environment. But prestige classes, in order to sell, basically have to be of the "if you're a pirate then you get +10 when fighting aboard a ship" style. As a DM, I'd rather the game follow the Conan model because otherwise my players are going to be pressured to stay within their own narrow areas of speciality ("I'm a hill fighter, so I can't go on the sea adventure because I'll lose my +10 to damage in the hills.")

It's arguable whether or not such specialization is realistic, but I basically think there's also the game to consider. One universal Common language probably isn't realistic either, nor is the tolerance of different kinds of nationalities and freedom of movement in most fantasy worlds, but those things probably make for a better game rather than keeping people stuck in a narrow niche, realistic or not.

 

[Hussar]

*snip*
Should we accept this bit of metagaming that characters simply continue to advance into the direction of a specific goal, despite the fact that the character himself might not even have seen reason to learn specific skills or feats? Or should the prerequisite system be overhauled to allow for more spontaneity and variety during character advancement without obstructing future choices?

What are your thoughts on this?

IMO? Absolutely yes we should accept this bit of metagaming. The player's characters are theirs. Not mine. I have no problems keeping my greedy little DM fingers off my player's character sheets as much as possible.

With, of course, the possible caveat of stuff that just don't fit.

 

[Nifft]

Character concepts are modeled by mechanics.

Some mechanics (PrCs and Feats) have very specific prerequisites.

Effective RP may require some metagaming. There's nothing wrong with this. On the other hand, there's nothing particularly right with it. Flexible prereqs -- including the PHB-II retraining mechanic -- may help a lot with merging organic feel and balanced mechanics.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Michael Silverbane]

When I play, I tend to plan out my character's 'build' for dozens of levels in advance (ooh! by the time I'm 34th level I can have Innate Spell (mordenkainen's lucubration)! That is awesome!). I also like to screw around with that advanced planning to see what the results will be (if I take Heighten Spell at 12th level, I can continue to make use of dominate person at higher levels... on the other hand, if I take Energy Admixture (cold), I'll be able to put a hurt on those demons that we've been hearing about). I also tend to make changes to the plan based on the nature of the campaign (so... half of the world has turned to zombies... So... no Arcane Trickster levels for me).

When I DM, I encourage my players to plan their characters in advance (what do you want to be able to do by the time you're 12th level? what prestige classes are you thinking about?). I requie them to have their next level planned out, so that I can work their training and advancement of that level into the current arc (fred the fighter has begun changing up his fighting style to be more agressive but somewhat less accurate. he's really swinging for the fences)...

Later
silver

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Snarkiness aside, why is that funny? Are you saying that you find it inconceivable that folks may plan their career path in advance? From my experience it is extremely common, if not the norm, for folks to do so.

It's common, yes.

But planning is one thing. Actually following that plan is much, much rarer...

 

[Warren Okuma]

It was recently pointed out to me that many players plan their D&D characters a long time in advance - often for five, ten, or even more levels. They need to do this to get precisely the combination of feats and prestige classes they want.

And somehow, this seems vaguely annoying. The life of an adventurer can be extremely varied, and logically, this should mean that a character constantly learns new things in response to his previous experiences - instead of focusing his training on a rigid advance scheme so that he can meet certain prerequisites for his favorite prestige class.

Should we accept this bit of metagaming that characters simply continue to advance into the direction of a specific goal, despite the fact that the character himself might not even have seen reason to learn specific skills or feats? Or should the prerequisite system be overhauled to allow for more spontaneity and variety during character advancement without obstructing future choices?

What are your thoughts on this?

You should show more tolerance to different styles of play.

Jürgen lighten up dude.

If people have fun this way who cares and why should you care, I mean it annoys you okay, but let other people have fun their own way. Live and let live.

Yeah, me giving a tolerance speech. Go You should show more tolerance to different styles of play.

Jürgen lighten up dude.

If people have fun this way who cares and why should you care, I mean it annoys you okay, but let other people have fun their own way. Live and let live.

Yeah, me giving a tolerance speech. Go figure. Must be late.

 

[Lanefan]

When I DM, I encourage my players to plan their characters in advance (what do you want to be able to do by the time you're 12th level? what prestige classes are you thinking about?).

At campaign start, 12th level is a *long* time away; and given my record I'll be on my 5th character by then...assuming, of course, your game has any threat of death or other ugly outcomes that can render a character unplayable. So, no point asking me my plan for 12 levels hence...

I requie them to have their next level planned out, so that I can work their training and advancement of that level into the current arc (fred the fighter has begun changing up his fighting style to be more agressive but somewhat less accurate. he's really swinging for the fences)...

This, however, is excellent; it adds a bit of realism to gaining a level, particularly if said level is in a new class.

Lanefan