D&D 2E Looking back at the Monstrous Compendia: the MC appendices, Monstrous Manual, and more!

Zaukrie

New Publisher
Mc 4 is a poster child, as you say, in the difficulty of doing setting monster books. So much bad, and so little traction.

I feel like there are a lot more memorable monsters in the GH book, but if have to look again to be sure.

In retrospect..... So many monsters are just monster X with different fur or skin, especially humanoids..... Because of you are trying to keep the game generic, you lose what's interesting, the culture. Which gets is into the whole argument of intelligent creatures not all being good or evil.....
 

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Voadam

Legend
I kind of expected Bullywugs and Xvarts to be in MC5 the Greyhawk one thanks to the Greyhawk gods with specific associations with them, but bullywugs were in MC2 already and xvarts are nowhere to be seen, you have to wait until MC 14 the fiend folio leftover collection for them.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
In retrospect..... So many monsters are just monster X with different fur or skin, especially humanoids..... Because of you are trying to keep the game generic, you lose what's interesting, the culture. Which gets is into the whole argument of intelligent creatures not all being good or evil.....
I was going to mention something like that regarding norkers (which had their AD&D 2E incarnation debut in MC5), but I'd already touched on that point when I talked about the slig (in MC4), and didn't want to sound like I was repeating myself too much.
 

it's been a loooooooong time since I read either, but weren't both the WoG and FR MCs kinda loaded with 'a handful of world specific critters, and lots of others that would fit in about anywhere'?
 


*Yes, Blackmoor should be considered the first setting. The main thing with it is that it was a relatively small setting, and Gary kind of just dropped it into Greyhawk I think because all these early games were part of a larger world. It's better than how Mystara eventually treated it by dumping it into the distant past though. However, I feel Blackmoor should be its own thing rather than tacked onto either Greyhawk or Mystara.

Only the Mystara Blackmoor is even close to "real" Blackmoor, thanks to it being based on the D&D module co-authored by Arneson. It also has the crashed spaceship and other sci-fi elements. It is placed in the distant past so as to effectively "make it its own thing".

The Blackmoor in Greyhawk is little more than a few names taken from the original. Unlike original and Mystara Blackmoor, the "City of the Gods" in Greyhawk is a giant clockwork city formerly inhabited by mechanical men, not a crashed spaceship. Same deal with things like the Egg of Coot and Blackmoor Town itself. The names are Arneson, but that's it.
 

Orius

Legend
Arneson only partly cowrote those modules, as I understand it he only worked on the first two or maybe part of the third. Williams wasn't really interested in having him around. I think it's kind of disrespectful of his work to just dump it in the distant past of Mystara. But like I said, Blackmoor should be its own thing rather than tacked onto another setting.
 

Arneson only partly cowrote those modules, as I understand it he only worked on the first two or maybe part of the third. Williams wasn't really interested in having him around. I think it's kind of disrespectful of his work to just dump it in the distant past of Mystara. But like I said, Blackmoor should be its own thing rather than tacked onto another setting.
Dave Ritchie probably wrote most of the meat of the module, but the core concepts (in the first three, and especially DA2) are all Arneson. It is even possible he was the one who requested the time travel aspect. (Amusingly Arneson claims that Ritchie was "just an editor" which would make everything in DA1 to DA3 Arneson's idea)
 

Voadam

Legend
Arneson only partly cowrote those modules, as I understand it he only worked on the first two or maybe part of the third. Williams wasn't really interested in having him around. I think it's kind of disrespectful of his work to just dump it in the distant past of Mystara. But like I said, Blackmoor should be its own thing rather than tacked onto another setting.
There is the 3.5 Zeitgeist Games Blackmoor as its own thing setting books.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
I'm not sure that I ever fully appreciated, prior to now, just how much of an odd duck MC6 Monstrous Compendium Kara-Tur Appendix really is.

For instance, it wasn't until I went back over this MC that I realized how unusual its designation is. The standard convention is that an MC appendix will share the name of the campaign setting that it's for, such as how MC3 was the Forgotten Realms appendix, or later on we'll come to the Mystara appendix, etc. But by that token, this should be called the Oriental Adventures appendix, since that's the name of the campaign setting book for this MC.

Now, my guess is that it's instead calling itself "Kara-Tur" because (in a manner similar to how Al-Qadim split its basic information between the Arabian Adventures and Land of Fate), the actual setting information was (mostly) confined to Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms...but even if it has the name of the continent in its title, it was still published under the Forgotten Realms logo.

As it turns out, this is actually a bit of confusion that's really part of the 1E/2E OA line as a whole. Most of the AD&D 1E adventures, such as O1 Swords of the Daimyo, were all published under the Oriental Adventures banner. But OA5 Mad Monkey vs the Dragon Claw started using the Forgotten Realms logo, with "Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms" as a sort of sub-logo. Then OA6 Ronin Challenge switched out the sub-logo (but kept the FR brand listing) to "Oriental Adventures." Then OA7 Test of the Samurai switched it back. And finally, FROA1 Ninja Wars dropped the sub-logo altogether, being just an FR product. So perhaps it's no surprise that the OA MC wasn't actually tagged as being OA (or Forgotten Realms, for that matter).

Whew! All of that and we're not even past the cover yet!

Another thing that's odd about this book is how it openly references the original Oriental Adventures, despite this being an AD&D 2E product and that being an AD&D 1E sourcebook. I know that's only "odd" given how we nowadays expect that edition changes to be a big deal, but it's remarkably indicative of how they weren't seen as that big of a deal then. And I'm not just talking about this MC's mentioning that book in its introduction. Quite a few monsters in here, for instance, have magical abilities that blithely reference spells from OA which (I'm pretty sure) hadn't been reprinted for AD&D 2E when this book came out.

Reading those now honestly makes me feel like John Cusack when he hooked back up with his old girlfriend (Catherine Zeta-Jones) in High Fidelity. Did I just overlook all of these? Did I somehow edit them out? Nowadays something like this wouldn't bother me too much, but back then – and I'm fairly certain I picked this book up well within the first five or so years of my gaming career – I was turning my nose up at 1E all over the place, convinced that it was obsolete in the face of 2E's release. And yet I have no memory of acknowledging this blatant cross-edition referencing.

As for the monsters themselves, leaving aside the obligatory note that most of them are updated from 1E (though not all of them are; here is where we finally started getting new monsters), I feel like there's an underlying issue with using these in most campaigns. It's not so much an issue of baggage in terms of how much of the underlying culture these monsters' presence connotes (though I won't say that's not a thing, as I had much the same objections to using the pantheons in Legends & Lore, though gods have a much larger in-game footprint than monsters do), since D&D is by its nature a game that trades in pastiches; no one, I suspect, would blink an eye at having a leprechaun plotting against a local medusa, despite the disparate real-world cultures that spawned those particular monsters.

No, the issue here is that a lot of these monsters have their baggage present within the context of the campaign, and that comes in the form of two words: the Celestial Bureaucracy...which, I'm like 99% sure, is the Chinese pantheon from the aforementioned L&L sourcebook.

Leaving aside the deft nature of the fact that "the Celestial Bureaucracy" nicely avoids having to call the pantheon by an Earth-specific place name, the fact that quite a few of this MC's monsters talk about their position within/connection to the Celestial Bureaucracy isn't really an issue; after all, that's a part of the specific campaign setting that these monsters are a part of. But D&D monsters have always been presented as being good for generic use in most homebrew campaigns as well, and while there are plenty of other monster books that have in-world specificity to their creatures (Ravenloft being a big "offender," here), the fact that this references an entire pantheon of gods feels like it creates an outsized effect...if you use, for example, a spirit centipede as-is, and your PCs research it to learn that it acts as the Celestial Bureaucracy dictates, then it's just opened up a vast new area in your campaign world's cosmology.

I know I'm overthinking this – and it's not like all of the monsters here are affiliated with the CB – but this just doesn't strike me as something that can be easily erased for the monsters that are. I suppose if you wanted to erase the Celestial Bureaucracy but keep the monsters' motivations, you could just say that they're like fey, in that they have bizarre habits that mortals can't understand, and have that be that.

Beyond that, there are a few other points that need to be mentioned, ranging from the gargantua monsters being clear analogues to kaiju such as Godzilla and Mothra, to the shirokinukatsukami being the monster with longest name in all of D&D (take that, ixitxachitl!), to the sheer weirdness of the krakentua, which are hundred-foot tall humanoids with squid-heads and (in the females of the species) psychic powers. Did someone decide that we needed an entire race of Cthulhus?

While I won't go so far as to say that this is the last book that puts a premium on mythology to generate new monsters (there are plenty of demons, devils, angels, etc. to come), it does strike me as notable that after this we're going to get more into campaign worlds that draw less from real-world inspirations for their monsters. Exceptions will abound, of course (once again, I point to Al-Qadim), but from here on out, things will start to get much more bizarre, starting with the depths of wildspace...

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