Looking for level based defense progressions

[Zoatebix]

I should also note that the progressions above don't replace the importance of the odd magical bonus to AC here and there - I think they work best with reduced "wealth" levels (the characters aren't necessarily buying magic gear, but they still have some magic equipment from adventuring and gifts), and not a magic-itemless game. At least, I've never tested a magic-free game with those defense bonus progressions.
-George

 

[Ibram]

I have a conundrum -- I looking to run a humanocentric -- reduced magic and magic item D20 ish campaign in the near future

Unfortunately I am having trouble with selecting a level based defense progrssions --

Can anyone suggest (and if possible post) a few OGL based level defense progressions that might be balanced with the following guidelines

3 extra feats over 20 levels

magic items on an add hoc basis (probably half or less but they should add power rather than balance charcters, a powerbaseline should take into account no magic items or masterwork gear )

2 extra skill points a level

You have pretty much described Conan d20.

 

[Zoatebix]

You have pretty much described Conan d20.

Yeah, that's just about true.

[hijack]I haven't been paying attention - do they have the revised/errattaed/etc. version of the Conan main book out yet? I was waiting for that before I purchased...[/hijack]

Of course, fan-material posted in this thread isn't $50 and a trip to the store (or a shipment).

[hijack, again]Now that I think of it, I should probably start posting my hourse rules on a website with an OGL with a robust section 15...

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I have a conundrum -- I looking to run a humanocentric -- reduced magic and magic item D20 ish campaign in the near future

Unfortunately I am having trouble with selecting a level based defense progrssions --

Can anyone suggest (and if possible post) a few OGL based level defense progressions that might be balanced with the following guidelines

3 extra feats over 20 levels

magic items on an add hoc basis (probably half or less but they should add power rather than balance charcters, a powerbaseline should take into account no magic items or masterwork gear )

2 extra skill points a level

To begin with, any system will most likely be flawed due to the inconsistencies of using hit points.

However, Here's some thoughts on defence that may or may not make sense.
There are effectively three aspects to defence:
- avoiding the blow
- deflecting the blow
- absorbing the blow

Avoiding the blow is taken into consideration using dodge bonuses, dex bonuses and so on. However in a low magic game, if emphasis is wished to be placed on level, just swap out Dex Bonus for the character's Reflex Bonus. I would still maintain Armour/Dex thresholds but allow the "Raflex" save part to be added as a Dodge Bonus. Possibly introduce AC as DR to compensate.
The system already does this in terms of feats although great reliance is placed upon magic as characters advance.

Deflecting the Blow is already considered in terms of Total Defence, Fighting defensively and the Combat Expertise feat. The advanced Combat Expertise feat allows PC's to trade upto their BAB in AC rather than the normal limit of 5. These should be standard for fighters worth their salt. However, I would suggest making the pre-requisite either intelligence 13 or a BAB of 4 to open it up to less intelligent but proficient fighters.

Absorbing the Blow is taken care of by differing Hit Dice. Repeating before however, I would do the AC as DR move. It makes sense in a low magic campaign.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Improved Dodge

Dex 15+, Dodge.

Gain +1 dodge bonus to AC per five levels. (+4 at level 20).


Greater Dodge

Dex +17, Dodge, Improved Dodge.

Gain +1 dodge bonus to AC per two levels. (+10 at level 20).


This assumes that Dodge grants a flat +1 as a house rule. You could make arguments both ways for some classes. A Wizard is a non combatant, so is unskilled in defense. This equals a low defense, wich may work for those who belive a Fighter is slightly under powered. Or one could say that they focus on staying away from danger, and grant them a higher defense.

This leaves it to character choice, leaving the option of the reckless Fighter vs. the cautious Fighter. The number of feats also favors a Fighter's high number of feats, but open to anyone who meets the prerequisites.

 

[nothing to see here]

The simple formula we used is to give each class a defense bonus equal to

(BAB + REF save) divided by 4.

Only the base values for each class are used (lightning reflexes does not apply).

If you multiclass you find the defence bonus for each class and then total the result.

we like it because it's universal -- no arbitrarily assigning of poor, good or avereage values. Just a bit of math based on what's already there.

 

[Zoatebix]

And that works out fine if you have equipment even closer to the "proper" wealth - the class with the highest defense bonus is ranger at level 20 with +8 to AC. The fighter isn't too far behind with +6, and the rogue has... also +6 (but a slightly higher plus six than the fighter). Even Sorceror and Wizard don't miss out much with +4 by 20th level.

Really - you have to see how much equipment that you think is right, and decide how the class defense bonus interacts with armor, to get the results you want (presumably - AC values that are close to what someone could get with all of the ridiculous equipment a 20th level character can afford.

For an opinion I trust (and a system whose design parameters I used as a class ballance gague when I was designing classes for my game), check out this: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66470.

It's pretty easy to mess with the value of equipment, and it's also easy to turn a bonus to AC into a modifier for challenge rating (or character level/effective character level). U_K's system is very flexible and pretty much modular - he designed it for use in ultra-high level immortals campaigns, but it was first published by Bad Axe Games as the Challenge Rating and experience system their low-magic Grim Tales d20 "Rules Resource and Campaign Toolkit". Mess with the rules as much as you want, and use U_K's document as a guideline to compare what you've made to core D&D classes and challenge ratings.

You also might want to check this out: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86471&page=4
An alternative XP system (or two) based on U_K's stuff, and the basic experience assumptions from the core rules. Cheiromancer sums it all up nicely here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1834967&postcount=76

Rock on,
-George