Looking for opinions.... and I bet I can find some here.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Indeed, Limper, I use a system for this concept that I have developed for my own campaigns. I assign where appropriate, a specific expert class level, and depending on what type it is, assign different skills for them. For example:

Military Officer
Aristocrat Level 1
Warrior Level 1
Expert (Engineer) Level 1
Expert (Civil Service) Level 1

Engineer
(1) Craft--Carpentry
(2) Craft--Stonemason
(3) Craft--Blacksmith
(4) Craft--Technical Drawing
(5) Profession--Engineer
(6) Profession--Mining
(7) Knowledge--Metallurgy
(8) Knowledge--Mathematics
(9) Knowledge--War; Siege Warfare
(10) Knowledge--Chemistry

Civil Service, (Military)
(1) Craft--Calligraphy
(2) Profession--Administration
(3) Knowledge--Politics
(4) Knowledge--Nobility
(5) Knowledge--Law
(6) Knowledge--War; Logistics
(7) Knowledge--History (Military)
(8) Diplomacy
(9) Gather Information
(10) Bluff

The character gains all of the specific benefits of each of these classes, including skills, per class, any feats, BAB, saves, and so on. The character is then ready to start "adventuring" as a Level 1 character, of whatever class that they like. I simply assign them a ECL of 4. Thus, lets say they want to be a Paladin. Fine.

I compute all of the appropriate benefits, then add 1 level of Paladin. They advance however, at that point, as an ECL of 5, paying the appropriate experience points, to reach level 2 Paladin. The character takes longer to advance in levels, but the character has the full benefits of lets say 2-4 years as a young noble serving in the military, who has also had some really cool officer training.

I have a similar system for many different types of characters. I regularly use a Expert (Monastic Monk) as the appropriate "class", to articulate the training that Knight-Templars go through in my campaigns. Such vigorous monastic training usually lasts seven years, and is a blend of harsh military boot-camp, with a vigorous and demanding classical university training. Thus, in brief, it would look like this:

Typical Templar Candidate

Commoner Level 1
Warrior Level 1
Expert (Monastic Monk) Level 1
Expert (Monastic Monk) Level 1

The Expert, (Monastic Monk) is a combination of religious focus, labour/professional, and scholarly/academic skills. As follows:

Expert (Monastic Monk)
Craft--Carpentry
Craft--Calligraphy
Profession--Cook
Knowledge--Religion
Knowledge--Hearth Wisdom
Knowledge--History (Religion)
Knowledge--Literature
Knowledge--Law
Diplomacy
Gather Information

The Templar candidate could then enter Level 1 Paladin as an ECL 4 character, and yet, be 18 or 20 or 21 years old for example, be a Level 1 Paladin, and also have some really useful and meaningful background skills and abilities to show for seven long hard years living in an isolated monastary learning the ways of the priest, scholar, and warrior.

I hope you like it.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[whydirt]

I like this idea a lot. In fact, I went and made my own Expert variants to fill in this idea. I decided that some of these variants needed different good saving throws, so I've listed which one it is below. I consider Knowledge (all skills) to take up 2 class skill slots.

Here are some examples:

Class Name (good save)
Class skills

Priest (Will)
Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (all skills taken seperately), Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft

Con Artist (Will)
Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, Innuendo, Intimidate, Perform, Pick Pockets, Profession

Nomad (Fort)
Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intuit Direction, Jump, Listen, Ride, Swim, Use Rope, Wilderness Lore

Arcane Scholar (Will)
Alchemy, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (all skills taken seperately), Profession, Spellcraft
*Can memorize Read Magic and Detect Magic 1/level each day

Scout (Ref)
Climb, Craft, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Search, Spot, Swim

Other classes I've made include Sailor, Burglar, Asthetic, an alternate Noble, Performer, and Shaman.

In addition, I came up with another house rule that could help make multiclassing seem more realistic. Each of the standard PC classes requires at least one level of a certain NPC class as listed below.

PC class - required NPC class options

Barbarian - Nomad or Warrior
Bard - Performer or Con Artist
Cleric - Priest or Shaman
Druid - Nomad or Shaman
Fighter - Warrior
Monk - Asthetic
Paladan - Warrior and Priest
Ranger - Nomad or Scout
Rogue - Sailor, Con Artist, Burglar, Noble, Scout, or Warrior
Sorcerer - *Any
Wizard - Arcane Scholar

*Sorcerers in my campaign gain their abilities through tattooing and other rituals and can come from any background. You could make an NPC class for them easily enough.

With this system you don't have to worry about your fighter suddenly taking a level of wizard without any training.

I'd start PC's at 3rd level with 2 levels of NPC classes and 1 of a PC class, but you could obviously start where you see fit.

What do you think?

 

[Limper]

So SHARK you actually bill them the full price for the NPC levels? Do you concider those NPC background levels to be worth as much as real levels?

I went low and tried to balance (I know nasty word) for playability... a level 2 Commoner is about equal to a level 1 real class in my eyes and it looks like a 2 to 3 ratio for the rest.

And yes I like it... thank you for the skills you use gives me something to work off of.

whydirt thank you (that sounds a bit odd) for the data I'll give it some thinking. I believe I can use some of this.

I appreciate the input.

 

[Piratecat]

Very cool idea - but it should be in House Rules. I'll slide it over.

 

[Negative Zero]

brilliant idea Limper!
me like a lot.
seems very well thought out.
sorry that i don't have a whole lot to contribute,
but i just wanted to voice my support
for a great idea

~NegZ

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

Jerrid Al-Kundo: Thanks I followed your link... is the realm in question private or public?

Ehr... Not catching your meaning. If you mean, "Can anyone make comments?" then yes, it's quite public.

 

[Limper]

How was it that Crothian did this......?

Oh yes! Owww I *bumped* my knee.

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

This looks fairly good; A few nice ideas in here.

The differences between them seem more related to setting and personal stylings than anything else (which is more or less the nature of House Rules, ain't it?).

 

[Limper]

Very true.