D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal: Feats/Backgrounds/Species

Remathilis

Legend
I had a long post about unviable characters before Tapatalk decided crashing was better than posting, so apologies for the rather abbreviated one below.

The reference to an unviable character was made in reaction to someone playing a character with a 3 Constitution. -4 Hp/saves. Meaning the character isn't just "sickly", he's an active chemo-patient trying to scale Mt. Everet. His hp is abysmal, even if he opts for the biggest HD he can have, he is going to fail every Con save he has to make and forget about Concentrating on spell (provided he actually outlives the damage done). A wizard with a 3 Con literally can't have double digit hp until 5th level (assuming he rolls hp and rolls 6's each time) and unless the DM is being exceptionally pillowfort with him, he is going drop to every trap, environmental hazard, or monster attack that deals damage to him.

And everytime he drops, its the party's responsibility to bring him up. At the very least, one PC is going to have to waste a round to stabilize him with a medicine check or spare the dying. More likely, its going to cost a PC gold (in terms of healer's kits or potions of healing) or spells (cure wounds or healing word) to keep him alive. That is resources being drained from others (or recouped from the dying PC's share). Further, that is resources that no longer available in case the fighter takes a bad crit or the rogue fails a disarm traps roll. It means you rest more often which slows down game. It could also mean that the healer ends up the PCs dedicated babysitter.

So yeah, after the 5th time in the same session that I have to spend time and resources keeping your PC from dying because you felt a 3 Con is a role-playing challenge, I might just let you make a few of those death saves first.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I had a long post about unviable characters before Tapatalk decided crashing was better than posting, so apologies for the rather abbreviated one below.

The reference to an unviable character was made in reaction to someone playing a character with a 3 Constitution. -4 Hp/saves. Meaning the character isn't just "sickly", he's an active chemo-patient trying to scale Mt. Everet. His hp is abysmal, even if he opts for the biggest HD he can have, he is going to fail every Con save he has to make and forget about Concentrating on spell (provided he actually outlives the damage done). A wizard with a 3 Con literally can't have double digit hp until 5th level (assuming he rolls hp and rolls 6's each time) and unless the DM is being exceptionally pillowfort with him, he is going drop to every trap, environmental hazard, or monster attack that deals damage to him.

And everytime he drops, its the party's responsibility to bring him up. At the very least, one PC is going to have to waste a round to stabilize him with a medicine check or spare the dying. More likely, its going to cost a PC gold (in terms of healer's kits or potions of healing) or spells (cure wounds or healing word) to keep him alive. That is resources being drained from others (or recouped from the dying PC's share). Further, that is resources that no longer available in case the fighter takes a bad crit or the rogue fails a disarm traps roll. It means you rest more often which slows down game. It could also mean that the healer ends up the PCs dedicated babysitter.

So yeah, after the 5th time in the same session that I have to spend time and resources keeping your PC from dying because you felt a 3 Con is a role-playing challenge, I might just let you make a few of those death saves first.
The odds of rolling a 3 on 4d6-L is what? .0772%? If you really want to worry about that...
 

mellored

Legend
If the world was at stake, and they needed five players or they would be DQ'd, and everyone else in the world who wasn't on a team and had played a sport after grade school and had hand eye coordination had been abducted by aliens, I might make the team.
I have a hard time imaging a scenario where the world is at stake and 6 people wouldn't be better than 5. Even if the 6th only carried a backpack and a crossbow with 10 Dex.

Meta-gaming, adding a 6th would also mean increasing the difficulty.

But that makes little sense in-game. The litch with 1000 skeletons is going to be easier to defeat even if the 6th person could only kill 5 of them.
 

I have a hard time imaging a scenario where the world is at stake and 6 people wouldn't be better than 5. Even if the 6th only carried a backpack and a crossbow with 10 Dex.

Meta-gaming, adding a 6th would also mean increasing the difficulty.

But that makes little sense in-game. The litch with 1000 skeletons is going to be easier to defeat even if the 6th person could only kill 5 of them.
We literally had a bard in 3.0/3.5 that had 13/12/11/10/9/8 as stats. He carried a crossbow with 9 dex IIRC.

Still better than not shooting at all.

By the way, he was the highest damage dealer in the group, if you count every hit, every point of damage that only realized doe to his inspire courage.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I have a hard time imaging a scenario where the world is at stake and 6 people wouldn't be better than 5. Even if the 6th only carried a backpack and a crossbow with 10 Dex.

Meta-gaming, adding a 6th would also mean increasing the difficulty.

But that makes little sense in-game. The litch with 1000 skeletons is going to be easier to defeat even if the 6th person could only kill 5 of them.

Does the 6th person massively slow you down going across country?
Do they restrict which routes the party can go, or change things like if light sources are needed?
If they can't carry their own gear, how much does it weigh everyone else down?
If they go down in the first volley of arrows do you need to have the cleric stop fighting and save them, costing a spell that could save a big damage dealer later?
Do they have really bad stealth and make sneaking harder for everyone?
Should every party of five just bring along a grade school kid from the village who has shot before?
etc...
 
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mellored

Legend
Does the 6th person massively slow you down going across country?
Do they restrict which routes the party can go, or change things like if light sources are needed?
A young boy from town walked as fast and far as they could. When exhaustion sets in, they give you the extra rations and returned to town.

3 weeks later when the party is on the verge of starvation, they pull out the extra rations, thanking the little boy's kindness.
If they go down in the first volley of arrows
The little girl jumped in front of the fighter, taking a hit ment for him.

3 hours later the fighter finished the BBEG, with 2 HP left. If he had taken 1 more arrow, the world would of been lost.
Do they have really bad stealth and make sneaking harder for everyone?
The guy in a wheel chair turn and rolls down the hill at the guards, giving the party a chance to sneak past.
Should every party of five just bring along a grade school kid from the village who has shot before?
If the world is at stake, get all the help you can, in any way you can.

To be clear, I can imagine plenty of scenarios where the extra person won't help. But I don't see many where it will make things worse.

Not unless the army of 1000 somehow becomes an army of 1200 just because someone else is joining the party.
 

A young boy from town walked as fast and far as they could. When exhaustion sets in, they give you the extra rations and returned to town.

3 weeks later when the party is on the verge of starvation, they pull out the extra rations, thanking the little boy's kindness.

The little girl jumped in front of the fighter, taking a hit ment for him.

3 hours later the fighter finished the BBEG, with 2 HP left. If he had taken 1 more arrow, the world would of been lost.

The guy in a wheel chair turn and rolls down the hill at the guards, giving the party a chance to sneak past.

If the world is at stake, get all the help you can, in any way you can.

To be clear, I can imagine plenty of scenarios where the extra person won't help. But I don't see many where it will make things worse.

Not unless the army of 1000 somehow becomes an army of 1200 just because someone else is joining the party.
I also remember a book.. I really don't know the title anymore...

But I think there were some small guys with little to no special abilities next to battle experienced humans, a dwarf and an elf, and I think there was some angel like figure posing as a mage.
And in the end, the little guys made all the difference.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I also remember a book.. I really don't know the title anymore...

But I think there were some small guys with little to no special abilities next to battle experienced humans, a dwarf and an elf, and I think there was some angel like figure posing as a mage.
And in the end, the little guys made all the difference.

I mentioned that in a post upthread somewhere. :)

The angel, in that case, seemed to have noticed that the little guys were particularly resistant to the effects of the big bad thing they were carrying, which feels important for the particular mission.

For a game It feels like it partially depends on how much plot armor vs. grittiness one wants.

(I'll also note that a person who didn't stay behind like she was told had a big role to play too. Of course it makes one wonder why the angel being didn't pay attention to the relevant prophecy earlier).
 

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
A young boy from town walked as fast and far as they could. When exhaustion sets in, they give you the extra rations and returned to town.

3 weeks later when the party is on the verge of starvation, they pull out the extra rations, thanking the little boy's kindness.

The little girl jumped in front of the fighter, taking a hit ment for him.

3 hours later the fighter finished the BBEG, with 2 HP left. If he had taken 1 more arrow, the world would of been lost.

The guy in a wheel chair turn and rolls down the hill at the guards, giving the party a chance to sneak past.

If the world is at stake, get all the help you can, in any way you can.

To be clear, I can imagine plenty of scenarios where the extra person won't help. But I don't see many where it will make things worse.

Not unless the army of 1000 somehow becomes an army of 1200 just because someone else is joining the party.
I also remember a book.. I really don't know the title anymore...

But I think there were some small guys with little to no special abilities next to battle experienced humans, a dwarf and an elf, and I think there was some angel like figure posing as a mage.
And in the end, the little guys made all the difference.
in literature and hypotheticals you can manufacture any scenario you need to make even the weakest character matter and protect them with the thickest of plot armour, in gaming those scenarioes cannot be manurfactured a fraction as easily and more often than not in gaming that weak character just ends up dead or a resource drain on the other characters who need to babysit them from dying to the standard enemies.
 

in literature and hypotheticals you can manufacture any scenario you need to make even the weakest character matter and protect them with the thickest of plot armour, in gaming those scenarioes cannot be manurfactured a fraction as easily and more often than not in gaming that weak character just ends up dead or a resource drain on the other characters who need to babysit them from dying to the standard enemies.
As I mentioned earlier, our bard with abysmal (but allowed) stats was never a drain.

The worst that happens: the character dies. But built clever, you can contribute in and out of combat.
My last 5e character was not a lot better (no negatives at least) btw. And we played in a 2 person party. Still worked well enough.

It is not a computer game. Nothing is scripted. The DM and the players can adjust.
 

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