Looking for some moral challenges

[Fieari]

I have two lawful good characters in my game right now. A Paladin, and a Monk. The Paladin's -player- is incredibly different from a paladin, and I was shocked he chose to be a paladin since he's incredibly chaotic and leaning towards the evil side. The Monk is aiming for the saint template for what has been explicitly stated as "Munchkin reasons".

I would like to challenge these players. I want to challenge the paladin because I respect his decision to play a character so unlike himself and want to be able to emphasize that difference, and I want to challenge the monk so he actually EARNS his munchkinism. The only problem is that I have difficulty in thinking up moral challenges, esspecially when the paladin gets "detect evil" for free and basically goes around smiting everything that glows red to his vision. I've heard stories around enworld about DMs who are declared "bastards" because of the moral quandries they present, and was hoping that they could pipe up here with some real tricky moral puzzles.

Also, in order to cater to the monk, I want to find a situation where he could make an ACTUAL great personal sacrifice that might let him attain sainthood. Nothing trivial... something that HURTS, and HURTS HARD in order to earn it. Note that he already has the Vow of Poverty.

Help?

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

moral challenges? difficult decisions? search no more.

go to destan's sins of our fathers story hour (if you dont read it).

the characters are forced to sacrifice some people who may or may not be innocent "for the greater good". some characters didn't want to do it, some did, and some didn't want to know.

it caused quite a stink on the boards, and a few people said they wouldn't read destan's sh any more, as it just wasn't their thing. lots of other "gray" - definitely not for everyone. so dont say i didnt warn you.

the wise guy,
W.P.

 

[Gwarok]

Well the Paladin should be relatively easy to put in a quandry. Make it very easy for him to solve his problems with violence. But allow for a better, altho longer resolution thru peaceful means. Perhaps start him out chapping himself for cruelly putting a prisoner to death.

The Munchkin, goodluck. Moral dilemmas only count if the person playing their character has enough connection with them to feel that their actions in the fantasy world have consequences that are worth role playing. Since he is already under the VoP there isn't anything material you can do to him, so its going to have to be a physical sacrifice. Think ritual mutilation.

 

[Dagger75]

Want a good moral dilemma for both

Avatar of evil god captures 4 people from around the lands. After some adventuring they find where the 4 people are being kept. They get in fight some minions and get to the chamber. There 4 people hanging from pillars and the avatar for the god of evil standing there.

Says "I have been waiting for you. You see I am going to attack to these mortals homeland with death and disease. But you give me a much better option, I shall let you the Paladin decide which mortals land shall be ravaged, the other 3 will be free to go."

Now would be the good time for a saintly monk to step forward and chose to be sacrificd so the rest can go. Very saint like.

Don't let the paladin chose himself, that is to easy. And take his paladinhood if he choses any of the 4.

Good luck.

 

[Ibram]

There are a few different moral quandries that you can throw at your players...

1) The ally with a bad guy against a worst guy
say there is an evil warlord who rules over the land, the party tangles with his minions on several different occasions (perhapse they even fight agaisnt the evil warlord)... then comes the orc/undead/daemon invasion and now evil warlord is the only guy around with a strong enough army to stand against them.

2) the innocent who is destined to become a great evil
another party of heros travels back intime to kill an innocent child who will one day become a brutal conquerer... but the kid manages to escape from the farm he lives on (after seeing his parents cut down by the time travelers)... does the party help the "heros" (one of whom should be a paladin or a monk)

3) the magic item trap... one of my favorets
there are a thousand varriants on this one... but my favoret is where the characters actualy have to build the evil item to stop the other evil

 

[mac1504]

Also, in order to cater to the monk, I want to find a situation where he could make an ACTUAL great personal sacrifice that might let him attain sainthood. Nothing trivial... something that HURTS, and HURTS HARD in order to earn it. Note that he already has the Vow of Poverty.

How about a cursed magical item (a single hand wrap for example that gives him a bonus to attack or damage- something that his munchkiny self would slaver over) that he will have to chop off his hand to remove or slowly be turned to evil?

Edited for poorly structured sentence.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Introduce someone who the party WANTS DEAD. He does EVIL THINGS. Murder, rape, swindling fortunes, destroying baby bunnies, whatever. Then have the party work with him.

Maybe an enchanter torturer who inserts horrible memories into other people's heads, after taking them from his victims. The PCs go up against him, and he gets away.

Then make him the only person who can do something--maybe extract the location of an "atom bomb" like magic item--but instead of fire and radiation, it spreads several virulent plagues--blinding sickness, slimy doom, AND mindfire all at the SAME TIME...in the largest city in the area (Even Cure Disease + A bijillion clerics won't be effective in curing thousands of people--reinfection will occur.).

Now the party has a conundrum. They have to find this horrible person...and let him go after he gets the location of the bomb...because even HE doesn't do anything like what the bomb-setter does.

I'm liking this...I'll have to use this...

 

[Desdichado]

I've always kinda like the long term campaign where the PC's have been gunning for this big bad evil guy for quite a while. Then, just when they're about to finally beat him, they find out that as big, bad and evil as he is, he's the only thing holding back an even bigger, badder and more evil guy that's now stepping in to take his place. This bigger, badder and more evil guy can only be brought down if the original big, bad evil guy is reinstated.

So what's a paladin to do? Reinstate the BBEG he just helped to overthrow?

 

[Krieg]

2) the innocent who is destined to become a great evil
another party of heros travels back intime to kill an innocent child who will one day become a brutal conquerer... but the kid manages to escape from the farm he lives on (after seeing his parents cut down by the time travelers)... does the party help the "heros" (one of whom should be a paladin or a monk)

Alternatively this does not have to be a time travel scenario.

Prophecy is a great tool, especially in worlds where it is 100% accurate.

The church of a LG god identifies the location of the individual who will one day destroy the world, the players arrive only to find that the prophecied one is a new born child.

Do you murder an innocent babe because of what it may one day become?

 

[Voadam]

I have two lawful good characters in my game right now. A Paladin, and a Monk. The Paladin's -player- is incredibly different from a paladin, and I was shocked he chose to be a paladin since he's incredibly chaotic and leaning towards the evil side. The Monk is aiming for the saint template for what has been explicitly stated as "Munchkin reasons".

I would like to challenge these players. I want to challenge the paladin because I respect his decision to play a character so unlike himself and want to be able to emphasize that difference, and I want to challenge the monk so he actually EARNS his munchkinism. The only problem is that I have difficulty in thinking up moral challenges, esspecially when the paladin gets "detect evil" for free and basically goes around smiting everything that glows red to his vision. I've heard stories around enworld about DMs who are declared "bastards" because of the moral quandries they present, and was hoping that they could pipe up here with some real tricky moral puzzles.

Also, in order to cater to the monk, I want to find a situation where he could make an ACTUAL great personal sacrifice that might let him attain sainthood. Nothing trivial... something that HURTS, and HURTS HARD in order to earn it. Note that he already has the Vow of Poverty.

Help?

I would advise against throwing moral quandries against the paladin.

Are you sure he wants them or is he having fun being a good guy who smites evil?

It might turn him off the whole good guy concept and ruin his fun if you target him for no win moral situations that would not be there if he was not a paladin. Many people enjoy playing the role of the hero paladin without having to wade through potential disagreements with a DM about what is evil or grossly violates the paladin code, etc.

Some do want those challenges but there is a huge potential for ill will if you set him up in tough moral situations and then penalize him for moral choices about which you disagree with him.

Now the monk is setting himself up for that if he knows he must make a big sacrifice as a prereq to get the template.

Perhaps something like voluntarily holding a demon within himself to contain it even though it will screw up the spiritual purity needed to maintain his exalted status and he will lost the benefit of his vow of poverty.

BoED material by reputation is not balanced for regular play, it requires significant RP or other balancing to work and exalted characters are supposed to be a step up on the good o meter and rp requirements beyond paladins by my understanding.