Looking to get some advice on ninja builds

[RigaMortus2]

Was wondering if anyone has any good builds for a ninja. I'm not quite sure where to start or what road to go down, I just know I want to make one.

I had two thoughts...

One is a generic ninja that can do a little bit of everything as far as combat tricks go. So I'd like to take the following tricks:

Ninja Tricks
Bleeding Attack
Fast Stealth
Feather Fall
Wall Climber
Shadow Clone
Sudden Disguise
Vanishing Trick

Master Tricks
Assassinate
Ghost Step
Invisible Blade (requires Vanishing Trick)

Just not sure what feats to take. Maybe a mix of melee and ranged? Also thinking of giving up Bleeding Attack for one of the shurkien attacks. With the above tricks, I can do a little bit of everything...

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My next idea was a ranged build. The only disadvantage of this, is he'd be a one-trick pony.

Ninja Tricks
Vanishing Trick
Deadly Range x3
Fast Stealth
Sudden Disguise
Forgotten Trick

Master Tricks
Assassinate
Invisible Blade (requires Vanishing Trick)
Ghost Step

Feats
Point Blank Shot
> Precise Shot
>>> Bulls Eye Shot (+5 BAB)

The idea behind this is, using a Short Bow, getting Sneak Attack out to 60 feet, and basically being a ranged sniper assassin. Use Assassinate from 60 feet out. Looking for other feats to compliment this. Maybe some for perception, remove miss chance due to concealment/cover, hit and run tactics.

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If you've made a Ninja lately or have a build you can share, please do.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

What is your starting level? At level 10 w/ Invisible Blade, lots more stuff (like ranged combat) becomes viable than it was pre-level 10. You can do dips and feats to make said things viable earlier, but if you expect to spend more than a few sessions at level 10+, you'll end up feeling like you wasted those resources in the end.

This isn't to say invisible blade is really powerful. It's more like every other means of reliably getting sneak attack, especially from ranged, was nerfed into the ground by PF.

Also, what are your stat rolls / point buy? Ninja is THE most multiple ability dependent class in the game. Needs min. str and int 10, good dex and cha, and above average con and wis to shore up the terrible save progression rogues get (worst in the game). You have no dump stats.

 

[RigaMortus2]

We usually do 25 point buy.

I am not sure what level I will be starting with this particular character. If I play in the current campaign, it would probably be around level 8 or so.

If I save this particular character for a new campaign, then assume level 1.

I guess I'd like to build it from level 1 up. So if I have to go through growing pains as a ranged ninja at the early levels, so be it.

 

[prototype00]

I've repeated this quite a few times before, so if you were an unfortunate recepient of my previous advice, apologies.

That being said I favor the Scout archetype, Sap Adept, Sap Master ninja build which comes with the following advantages:

1.) Lots of damage (like the most damaging rogue build out there, 2xSA damage is hard to beat)
2.) Early blooming (lvl 5 to get the full build, only improves from there)

and the following disadvantages:

1.) Nonlethal damage and bludgeoning weapons only
2.) You need to charge, so you're only getting one attack. Usually. You can get pounce if you're a kitsune, so thats pretty awesome.

prototype00

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ninja don't get sap proficiency, so you're basically looking at unarmed of some sort, w/ IUS feat (and presumably doing a style tree). Or dipping.

You can get pounce with a single level of synthesist summoner (quadruped form), the main problem being that your base str and dex scores will be locked at 14 and 16 pre-items, and you can't do anything other than magic to increase them.

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But if you're starting level 8, I'd just take the typical ranged feats (and be sure to have a seeking bow!) and just suffer a little till level 10 and Invisible Blade. It's not worth investing in Shatter Defenses, or dipping Waves mystery Oracle, or anything else like that to help get ranged SA when you're starting on the cusp of getting it anyway.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Thanks for the advice.

I definately like the Sap idea, but not for this particular character. I have a character concept in mind for that one, but will probably be Rogue and not Ninja.