Originally posted by MarauderX:
I agree with the thought line of losing XP that is kinda a drawback for any PC that wants to create items.
Keep in mind that this "drawback" is balanced out by the fact that the PC only has to pay half the "market price" in gold pieces to create the item; the XP cost offsets the advantage this gives. To take a quick, concrete example, consider the wizard PC who has earned 72,000 XP. This puts him at 12th level, 6000 XP past the "12th level" threshold and 6000 XP away from 13th level.
The DMG lists the "Standard Wealth" for a 12th level character as 88,000 gp.
The 12th level character with no item creation Feats has 88,000 gp to spend - perhas he uses his wealth to get a Staff of Frost (70,000 gp) and a Wand of Fireballs (8th-level caster, 8d6 damage - 18,000 gp). He's tapped out already!
Consider now the case of a character who DOES have item creation Feats (say, Craft Staff and Craft Wand and Create Wondrous Item)... he has the same Staff of Frost and the same Wand of Fireballs... but because he made them himself, he's had to spend a mere 44,000 gp... leaving him with 18,000 gp to craft for himself a Headband of Intellect +6, 16,000 gp for an Amulet of Natural Armor +4, 10,000 on a Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (Regenerate 1 hp/hour), and 2,000 gp on Bracers of Armor +2. All of this has cost him a scant 3,520 experience points - not even close to enough to make him drop a level.
You tell me which of these two is the more formidable opponent... and that's not even trying to make a min/maxed combination. In exchange for 3,520 experience points, this character has boosted his intelligence score 6 points, has +6 to his armor class, and can regenerate 1 hp/hour.
If you ask me, that's a darned good tradeoff. I'm guessing the guy with the Item Creation Feats will have little problem blasting through opponents more quickly, allowing him to gain XP even faster than the guy who doesn't have the Feats... which means that he'll make up for that XP expenditure over time because of his ability to earn more XP faster than the other guy.
I can't take away what the PC has earned through blood, sweat, etc. just to make a magic toy for themselves or some other PC.
Don't think of it as taking away what the PC has earned. The PC is not giving up the XP completely - rather, he is investing the XP in an item which he believes will enable him to gain XP more quickly in the future, because he will be able to defeat superior foes and defeat them faster. Think of it this way: if I asked you at 5th level to give up 2,000 XP and in exchange you would gain a +10% bonus to all XP earned from then on, would you do it? How long would it take for you to "break even" on your investment? (20,000 XP; you'd have broken even before you hit 9th level).
XP is not an "expenditure" so much as an "investment" - the character gives up a little now in exchange for a modest boost in all future endeavors.
I think the players adventure enough to gain the XP they lose, but eventually the casters end up behind others as they all advance in levels, which no player wants to do.
Again, I ask you... do you think the "return on investment" on the part of the caster is worth it? If I craft a +3 sword for every fighter in my party, do I wind up a level behind them? Maybe. Would I be picking up XP as quickly with them in the future if they didn't have those swords? No. Again, I spend a certain amount of XP now to make it easier for me to earn XP in the future. Perhaps my party can earn 2,000 XP per month without the swords and 3,000 XP per month with them. I spend 5,000 XP to make the swords. Yes, I am a level behind them, but where am I 12 months from now? Well, if I hadn't made the swords, I'd have 24,000 XP. Because I did make the swords, I have 36,000 XP less the 5,000 XP I spent - giving me 31,000 XP - I get MORE XP in the long run and recoup my investment! I don't worry that the fighters have 5,000 XP more than I do - I note that I have a net gain of 7,000 XP more than
I would otherwise have had. I don't compare myself to other party members, I compare "actual me" with "potential me had I gone another route."
I don't have tons of magic in my campaigns and I want to encourage the players to do whatever they want when not heavily involved in an adventure, and having them handicap themselves by not making items just to save some XP can really turn a campaign around.
That's a campaign flavor decision, not a game balance problem.
There would be no safari adventures where the players get to just mindlessly hunt down some strange critter for a magic item, and their money would just keep massing so they could buy their way into royalty if they wanted. It's not good for the flow of my campaign and any crap on spending XP has been house ruled right out.
Who's to say you can't combine the two? And as for the flow of money, while the characters might amass wealth, they're likely as not going to keep pouring it back into getting bigger and better magic items. If they don't, consider "changing the carrot" - dangle a barony in front of them - get them involved in running a fief and defending it from dragons, instead of playing "accumulate the treasure." Remember the Boxed Sets of 1983 - you go from Dungeon Crawl and pick up money to Wilderness Crawl and pick up Magic Items to Rule a Dominion and Wander the Planes and building your political power base to Questing for Artifacts, Conversing With Gods, and Preparing for Divine Ascension yourself. The "carrot" you dangle in front of the players should keep changing or things will get stale.
--The Sigil
