Your doing this because everyone has to pay 20% of their item's worth, right? Maybe I misunderstand the percentages, so I apologize for that.
What ends up happening is that if no-one wants to claim an item, it goes into the group pot and everyone ends up with 1/5 its ticket price once sold.
If someone wants to claim it, you take the resale value (1/5 its ticket price) and split that into even GP amounts per party member.
To purchase this from the group, the player then needs to pay for everyones share minus his own.
Ie - Level 5 item, ticket price = 1,000gp, resale value = 200gp
5 members in the group, each would get a share (if sold) of 40gp each
To buy this item from the group, the player would need to give over 4 shares (excluding his own beforehand) of 40gp, so 160gp
The end result is that the player gets a magical item that is 1/5 the cost if he purchased one in a shop and pays the group for it. Which is a bargain IMO.
Overall this means that if some players dont want a backpack stacked with Magical Items (perhaps only a sword and armor) then if they decline they get recompensated with gold.
However if there is one person that seems to pick almost any magical item that no-one else in the group could use more or has strong feelings for, to claim those he needs to make sure that the group individually dont lose out.
The only way to make this fair would be to give players an equal distribution of magical items determined by the DM (so not decide amongst yourselves but more "THIS IS FOR YOU" and "THIS IS FOR HER" and "THIS IS FOR HIM")
However this still becomes skewed because players need to wait longer to get that choice item since a DM cant give them out all at once and needs to stagger this via levels.
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No. It only has to even out over the "long term." IME, this is about 4 levels. You're right that if you want immediate status quo, then it can't be done, even in your system, unless the PC getting the item can afford paying the 20% immediately. That sort of a system really sucks wind, though, because now it's a lot like winning a car in a game show. Sounds great until you get the tax bill. No thanks, I don't want any magic items like that.
I agree that is less fantastical and people dont get the WOW factor but D&D isnt about players getting a set magical item per x encounters. It is about loot being found and the players getting to divy it up. If a player knows that he is due a magical item before the adventure starts let alone before he opens the next big chest, its a big letdown.
If however there is a system where if a magical item is found and someone wants it, they pay for it.
Magical items are not different than normal loot and they are just harder to divide fairly is all.
I'm a little confused by your example. It's incomplete. At level 1, 4/5 PCs get an item, one each of Level 2-5. So, by the time Dalat got his item, there were quite a few additional items to go around, very likely evening things out. And the answer is no, it wouldn't make sense to me for a PC to owe the group anything for a found item (I suppose there might be a corner special case somewhere, but I don't know what). I hate taxes and if you make me frackin pay taxes in a game that isn't called Monopoly, I'm gonna get angry.
This isnt a tax... think of it this way. If you have EVERY item gets sold regardless of demand and then if someone wants to claim it they have to pay what the group loses.
What if the fighter says "I like not missing, I want those 6 potions of clarity, it will help the group because we will fight better".. some may consider that fair but when other players arent being as greedy and they need to dig into their own pockets to buy healing potions and other ongoing items from the store this amounts to the fighter taking loot from the group and justifing it as a running-cost.
Yes, in most D&D games its easy to just say "Its my turn this time, its yours next and hers next and his next" but that to me is messy and could end up with some people getting cooler items and more money just because they didnt share.
This is a separate issue. If no one wants to keep the item, the DM should treat it just like gold from he parcel because that's what it becomes. Time for the DM to pick a non-sucky item next time.
So the DM is obliged to give magical items that MUST be useful to the group? That is a lot of pressure on the DM and not realistic since this is just a reverse wish list. I like that DMs dole out useful items on occasion but should that be EVERY occasion?
What if the thief gets the +1 thievery boots, +2 stealth cloak, +1 to hit scabard just because no-one else needs those things... that is 3 items he has... by this rational he shouldnt be allowed any more items for at least 3x players in the group, say 15 loot drops!! that is insane!
What if instead everyone gets a fair shot to claim an item and if they do, the one who wants it more / needs it more pays for it. In the above example the thief would be big on magical items but poor on coin whilst the other members of the group have a larger coin sack each...but less items.
So when the time comes to visit town and stock up on supplies and cool items, the Wizard can buy 3 extra rituals, the Fighter can learn those 2 martial practices and the Cleric can buy that +3 Holy Mace... But in the example above if the thief was just allowed to CLAIM those items because others didnt need them, he would be denying his friends the benefit of their fair share of those items.
For those of us that play D&D week to week, it can be months before you get a good magical item after waiting long for one, even a few levels... in the meantime we need to sit on our hands and be restricted by what we can buy with our money because others have got the cool magical items so far?
I think we miscommunicated here. My point was in response to my inference that your system somehow makes it fair that when a party member doesn't get any items from treasure, that the "paying for items" makes it fair. I'm saying that that perception is fundamentally flawed. This has nothing whatsover to do with unbalanced items.
I disagree entirely.
The concept of fairness hangs on the fact that everyone is treated the same.
Whilst I appreciate that everyone over say 4 levels might be treated the same and get the cool items, considering a level progress is worth 10 encounters and a group can get through say 2-3 encounters per session and most groups play weekly... that is 3-5 sessions per level and pottentially 12-20 sessions for it to balance out, which equates to 3-5 months before everyone feels they got their fair share.
I am sorry but fairness spread over that much time is no fairness at all.
If instead the group each get their fair share of the value of the magical item over those 5 months and can use those funds to improve their character and when the time is right, afford their own magical items, then that is fair.
It is the equivilant of telling a 10 year old kid he isnt allowed an Xbox but his brother is... because his brother is older and when you are older you get one. This is unfair and whilst this goes on everyday, it doesnt make it right and to that kid, he only sees something he is not getting.
If however his parents said "You dont get an Xbox but on his birthday we will treat you to a new Wii game?" that is very fair and providing his brother gets the same treatment, everyone wins.
I know you may disagree that the need to do this isnt fun or workable or in line with how D&D feels but you can not argue that this isnt fair as it is the fairest system possible... mathematicaly!
Exactly. This proves my point. By "paying off" your items, you will never make your fellow party members balanced with you. They MUST acquire items through treasure as well, AS MUCH as you do. Thus, all this paying out does nothing whatsoever to mitigate unbalancing selections. Nothing.
Again, this is a separate point. It's clearly the DM's fault if this happens and it's not for some specific reason (such as righting a previous imbalance or perhaps for temporary story reasons).
I get that a lot of people just want to wing it and that is of course upto them. I appreciate the comments and will take them onboard before recommending this method to my group.
I do however take note that people are arguing their objection to this point by stating the completely incorrect facts. Opinion is fine but saying the system I have come up with isnt fair is just plain mathematicaly wrong.
Oh, and I am not saying that if someone doesnt have the money they cant get it (they can always owe the group) and if they want to pay it back over a longer period they can do... these things are particular to the group
The key thing is that the distribution of loot when considering a Magical Item which is a VERY expensive piece of loot is done fairly and unless a DM is giving out the same value loot over a short period of time (specificaly 1 level of adventure) then anything else is unfair be it a small or large percentage
Also, do you want your DM custom making magical items just for you? Isn't it fun to find an item that you didnt think was useful but actually you could find some use for it (such as a wonderous item that refreshes with water) and would you want your DM to exclude such items because he is working to a wish list?
Back in AD&D 2E, there was a D100 table on the treasure charts and things were given out completely random... none of this PICK WHAT YOU WANT mentality and I think we get a lot of this INSTANT GRATIFICATION thing wrong modern computer game culture. The reason there are level 100 players in WoW and its not that there is an ARC where to go from level 1-2 takes a few hours, 2-3 takes a few days, 3-4 takes a few weeks etc etc... is because it is GRATIFYING to level... just as it is gratifying to get loot after loot after loot.
I understand that may people may not understand this and I think you have had to have had experience in old school D&D, pre internet computer gaming and even the early days of decent MMOs like UO to understand this.
In UO, the game was fun and everything was fair game and then to encourage more players they invented a newbie land where you couldnt get attacked or stolen from, it was boring and ruined the game... this concept carried forward into more games and ultimately we have a culture where no-one wants to work for their supper and they want everything instantly and to their terms.
I am not saying D&D players nowadays are about that but what I am saying is that the roadmap to success has changed quite dramatically in modern D&D... you die less, get magical items a lot easier (even to a wishlist in some cases) and a system that brings back the reality of the random nature of loot whilst keeping it fair for everyone is good in my book