Lord or Tyrant?

[Elf Witch]

I took a page for that from "The War God's Own" and "Oath of Swords". Paladins are agents of a God, personally chosen by the God/Godess they serve. That means the church of said God/Goddess stands behind them, backing them with power and authority - which translates into quite a lot of influence depending on the chruch in question, and the people adressed. Most if not all would also be members of a knightly order, and therefore nobility. Not that there are that many paladins.

Basically, a paladin's status is directly granted by a god - one of the highest authorities in the world there. So, there are not many characters not of the higher nobility and/or clergy that would consider themselves above a paladin, and even most powerful nobles will give them a lot of respect and deference for this - not to mention the respect due to a knight.

Same goes, although to a lesser grade, for clerics (there are much more of them, they are not that special, and lack the knighthood implied in most paladin orders). The more powerful a cleric is, and the higher his/her standing in the chruch, and the higher the church's power is, the more respect the cleric gets. It's a sort of second noble class that way. Lesser clerics would be more or less equal to poor knights in standing, cardinals and high priests would be treated like dukes and such.

I have to add too that fame and fortune and the reputation of heroic deeds plays an important role in my campaign - the more a characer has done, the more he/she is generally known. So, a militia member facing a level 10 character would not be trying to tell some vagrant with fancy airs off, he'd be trying to order Sir Galear, Hero of the Battle of King's Mountain, Defender of Riveroaks, the man who commanded the Iron Duke's vanguard during the crusade against the orc horde, around. Most commoners - and some PCs - in my campaign flock to those characters for help, tales, and support, they don't try to push them around. Even nobles can gain standing by associating with well-known heroes.

That is, of course, not limited to PCs. NPC heroes/nobles are in the same category.

(I can't help thank that some answers would be different if instead of an NPC disobeying a PC it had been a PC of not big standing or experience trying to order a hero NPC around.)

I have played in games where only knights of noble blood can become paladins for some reason the gods don't call commaners.

I just wondered how you handled it given the fact that in your world nobles are treated better and with more respect that commoners.

Though I don't find it unrealistic that clerics and paladins even of common birth would be treated witht he same respect as a noble. Back in the time of one powerful catholic church Kings answered to the pope because he had the power to put the kingdom under interdict which would deny communion, baptism, last rites to everyone in that Kingdom.

I could see tjis working in a DND world where a ruler has pissed of the church now they are denying healing and other things to the Kingdom.

 

[Eidalac]

Hrm.

I'd say they aren't Lordly or Tyrannical; they are trying to be lordly, but are too brash about it.

If they follow up by busting into the inner keep and forcing the miltia to the fight, then they become Tyrants.

If they realize they didn't take the best course of action, managed to deal with the vampires and placate the militia before the local lords return, then they are a set close to being Lordly.

IMHO, nobody was outright wrong, but nobody was outright right and neither side was big enough to be the better man, as it were, though I give the militia commander points for taking the duel.

 

[Rabelais]

Honestly though... if it's wrong to slap around peasants, I don't want to be right.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Honestly though... if it's wrong to slap around peasants, I don't want to be right.

Disturbing though that sentiment may be, there were no peasants in this story.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Personally, I'd find it a fitting scenario for the local lord to return with the Duke or King and a group of undead slayers, led by higher ranked NPC clerics of the PCs faiths.

If the local lords returned with all the above our characters would be delighted. However the campaign reality is that hundreds were killed and a thousand odd fled because their was a lack of such powerful, helpful, and unemployed allies.

Politically the situation is quite complex. The local lords are at odds with the queen of this realm because she acted upon an historical claim and seized the county, and they owe her no loyalty. Our heroes are similarly split with the wind walking Priest opposed to her. There is a likelihood that if the undead plague is stamped out, the local lords will not find themselves problem free.

 

[Fenes]

There was a "Chain of command" mentioned, and people saying that a captain speaks for his or her lord, and therefore has the authority of said Lord. That is true, in my campaign too - but that works both ways.

While a noble disrespecting a captain may end up in trouble when the Lord returns, a captain disrespecting a noble answers his lord as well.

"So... let me get this straight... there was the company of the Eternal Light visting my keep, offering their help with the Orc Threat, and you shot at them? And then you told the Sir Galear of Diosis, the Hero of Riverbanks, to get out? And argued with Priestess Melissa, the Beacon of Hope in the Outlands?"

 

[Numion]

While a noble disrespecting a captain may end up in trouble when the Lord returns, a captain disrespecting a noble answers his lord as well.

"So... let me get this straight... there was the company of the Eternal Light visting my keep, offering their help with the Orc Threat, and you shot at them? And then you told the Sir Galear of Diosis, the Hero of Riverbanks, to get out? And argued with Priestess Melissa, the Beacon of Hope in the Outlands?"

Nah, these NPC types usually stick together when it comes to being dicks towards PCs :\

 

[Elf Witch]

There was a "Chain of command" mentioned, and people saying that a captain speaks for his or her lord, and therefore has the authority of said Lord. That is true, in my campaign too - but that works both ways.

While a noble disrespecting a captain may end up in trouble when the Lord returns, a captain disrespecting a noble answers his lord as well.

"So... let me get this straight... there was the company of the Eternal Light visting my keep, offering their help with the Orc Threat, and you shot at them? And then you told the Sir Galear of Diosis, the Hero of Riverbanks, to get out? And argued with Priestess Melissa, the Beacon of Hope in the Outlands?"

I can see the lord speaking to his captain of the guard this way and I can also see this Lord having this conversation with the PCs.

" We are grateful for your help but was it necssary to treat my men as you did? They were brave men who instead of fleeing with the others stayed to defend my keep againt a greater number of udead." To the cleric who wind walked " I am sorry that you were injured by my men , but certainly a cleric fo your power and experience should have known that appearing as you did in front of the keep looking like a vampire was bound to distrub and confuse my men it seemed to be a day for misunderstandings on everyone's part." And finally to the Baron "Sir as a man in your position you must have experience dealing with nervous troops before do you find it a morale booster to beat your loyal men into obeying where you come from? Ah well nerves were frayed on all sides my men regreat their behavior as I am sure you regret yours. Let's say no more on this"

 

[Fenes]

Oh, yes - but while the first shot at some misty thing is completely understandable, it should have been followed by a lot of apologies from the shooters and the captain, to smooth things over - especially since the adventurers were known to the keep, and had pledged to defend it, and were in turn owed hospitality. After almost shooting your noble allies, you don't give them lip. That's rude, and stupid, and bound to get your commander angry at you.

Do not forget that the militia almost shot the priest, and was ready to shoot him again despite him trying to talk to them. It's not as if the adventurers started to bully people around for no reason, those people were trying to kill them. IMHO, the local Lord should blame the captain fully.

 

[Elf Witch]

Oh, yes - but while the first shot at some misty thing is completely understandable, it should have been followed by a lot of apologies from the shooters and the captain, to smooth things over - especially since the adventurers were known to the keep, and had pledged to defend it, and were in turn owed hospitality. After almost shooting your noble allies, you don't give them lip. That's rude, and stupid, and bound to get your commander angry at you.

Do not forget that the militia almost shot the priest, and was ready to shoot him again despite him trying to talk to them. It's not as if the adventurers started to bully people around for no reason, those people were trying to kill them. IMHO, the local Lord should blame the captain fully.

They owed the cleric an apology no doubt about that but he also owed them one as well because he showed poor tactics doing what he did. He made a mistake using his spell to appear that way in front of a keep under seige by vampires. As others have pointed out in a vampire situation you can't just trust your eyes and go okay that's my friend when he shows up alone after being seperated from everyone else. One things vampires do is turn people.

How could they possible know he was not a vampire just by looking at him and talking to him. As a DM I would have played by NPCs the same way because it makes sense.

And they did stop firing after the second cleric got through to them about it.

My issue with the entire thing is not that the second cleric got in a yelling match with the guard ,emotions were running high on both sides the miltia just had an encounter where they thought they were about to come under attack by undead their adrenaline was running high the same with the second cleric so it is very natural that both were saying things they should not.

But here comes the baron who is a much higher level than the NPCs and should have no problem using his skills to use diplomacy to defuse the entire sitaution. Because it is after all in the best interest of everyone that they all work together. But he does not even try to do that instead he jumps into the fray himself making an already tense situation worse. The situation gets totally out of hand and ends up in a duel between the guard and the baron. I think the baron as a leader was wrong he mishandled the situation.