Losing Prestige Class Requirements...
- Thread starter Curugul
- Start date
Quez The Lame
First Post
If you lose any requirement for a prestige class or feat you can't use it's powers or benefits. You do not lose them permanently, your abilities are just kinda turned off until you meet the requirements again.
Going with my understanding of the rules, I'd say you could not gain additional levels in a prc without meeting the requirements. But things like that kann kill off whole character concepts and the players motivation. So this is IMHO one point to be ruled by the DM.
Going with my understanding of the rules, I'd say you could not gain additional levels in a prc without meeting the requirements. But things like that kann kill off whole character concepts and the players motivation. So this is IMHO one point to be ruled by the DM.
Quez The Lame said:
If this is how they ruled this then they are just plain crazy.
5th Level base class
10th level PrC
Requirement 15 Str.
Character strength 18
Character fails save versus bestow curse.
DM to player: "oh BTW ignore all powers skills and other benefits that your character has learned for the last ten levels."
To me this is one of the best examples of when a big fat rule 0 should be used.
Elvinis75 said:
Until that character gets a Remove Curse cast upon him.
Kinda like how a character can ignore all his abilities he's earned from all of his 15 levels when he dies, until he gets a Raise Dead.
or can put his abilities to the side when he drops to -3... until he gets a Cure Light Wounds.
I see no problem with the rule.
clark411 said:
I can’t believe that you don’t see the problem with this.
First of all, equating death and a ability loss doesn’t seem to be a good example as death negates everything and has nothing to do with prereqs.
Second, this type of ruling puts an unfair disadvantage on the PrClasses.
The very idea of prereqs to become a PrC makes it harder than straight class but then to say that a PrC with 5 requirements loses all abilities of said PrC if any of them are removed seems a little ridiculous. Where is the game balance in that? Now I don’t remember a large number of stat-based PrCs but come on.
Grazzt
Demon Lord
Elvinis75 said:
That's just how the designers decided to do it. Game balance is completely based on mechanics (unlike 2e with kits where "roleplaying" stuff was considered balanced against mechanics). So, if you lose a requirement or prereq, you lose the abilities of that class. Like a paladin becoming evil (or whatever). Or for a PrC example...a Blackguard becoming good or an Assassin becoming good. You lose your abilities until you "atone" and become evil again.
The same thing happens with feats too. If you lose the prereqs, you lose the use of that feat until you once again meet the prereqs.
Perhaps the designers just wanted a blanket rule to cover PrC class ability loss rather than trying to come up with certain things that would cause you to lose your PrC abilities and certain things that would not. Better (for simplicity's sake) to have one rule, than 20. And though there are a ton of rules in 3e/3.5, its all about simplicity and ease (or it was
). One rule that says "if you lose the prereqs, you lose the abilities" is easier than "Ok, if 'A' happens you lose them, but if 'B' happens, you don't. But, if 'A' AND 'B' happen together, you lose them."Perhaps from a RL standpoint it seems silly, but then again this is D&D we are talking about here.
Elvinis75 said:
Ah, so, what your saying is the wizard level 15 with a 18 intelligence hit with that same bestow curse shouldn't actually loose all his ability to cast spells, gained in the last 10 levels, until he gets that -6 int removed. Since, the requirement to cast those 7th level spells is a minimum intelligence of 17.
Macbrea said:
The spell casting classes do get the shaft but it isn’t the total shaft that the PrC gets. The PrC spell casters still suffer disproportionably. Let’s look at some examples:
The Cleric (15):
The Cleric(5) + any PrC that adds +1 spellcaster level and other abilities
w/ prereq Wisdom 13
Both have 18 wisdom
Loss of wisdom from curse is -6:
The cleric casts at 15th level still has the ability to turn undead at full level.
The PrC Cleric is treated as a 5th level cleric with no additional powers or feats for all of those levels. To make up for the loss of turning undead.
Unless the PrC are not including the +1 spellcaster as skill gained as part of the PrC. I would think that it is. I will have to look at this when I get home.
Looking at the Loremaster the spellcaster levels are gained as though going up one level of the wisard. But is that an ability gained as the loremaster and thus lost? I'm still not sure on this one.
Wisards(PrC losses):
Effective caster level
Number of spell slots(if we are considering the +1 spellcaster level as lost)
Remember that as a normal wisard you can memorize all those spells as a lower level until you are cured.
Bards(Prc losses):
Both lose their spells however,
All inspiration and musical-magic abilities are lost by the PrC.
Fighter,Barbarians PrCs... etc lose again in a disproportionate manner.
Are there a lot or any PrC that use an attribute as a requirement?
Storm Raven
First Post
Elvinis75 said:
I think you have this wrong. The character loses all of the class specific abilities he gained from the PrC, but is still a 15th level character. He doesn't lose hit points, BAB, saves (other than those caused by the ability score reduction), his level based feats or skills. He does lose access to spells, special abilities, bonus feats and other specific class based attributes.
Yes, it sucks. But that is the penalty for getting hit by a nasty spell.
