(LOTR, TTT) An Arwen Poll

[Edena_of_Neith]

I am curious as to where everyone stands on the Arwen issue in the LOTR films.
I attempted to capture as many of the major points of view on this subject as possible.

My own inspiration for this poll is from the deletion of Arwen from Helm's Deep, which I found objectionable.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

A request to the Moderators

A request to the Moderators:

Could you make this poll multiple choice?
I am sure most people have several replies to the poll above. I certainly do.

 

[Ranger REG]

Man! I've never seen multiple choice this BIG!

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Well, the Arwen matter is, for lack of a better term, messy.
I tried to cover the range of how people would think, across the spectrum, in my poll. (I previewed the poll about 10 times before posting it.)

My vote was that Peter Jackson blew it by not showing her at Helm's Deep, but hey, that's just my vote and opinion.
I want to see how everyone else thinks (so far, I see that two person seem to be somewhat in agreement with me, and a whole lot of people are in disagreement with me.)

 

[WizarDru]

Perhaps I'm confused....when, exactly, does Arwen arrive at Helm's Deep in the Two Towers? I don't recall her doing it at all in the book.

 

[Bob Aberton]

She doesn't.

In the book, Elrond's sons Elladan and Elrohir go to Helms Deep.

However, some have suggested that Arwen should have gone to Helm's Deep, since Elladan and Elrohir are fairly minor characters and would only muddy the waters if they were randomly introduced.

Why Arwen should have gone to Helm's Deep, I'm not sure. In my opinion, PJ handled it much better by having Haldir go to Helm's Deep, because not only did it give a relatively minor character more screen time without adding baggage, but it also provided for an emotional death scene which served to bring a poignant hint of the cost of such a war (ie, Aragorn's friend Haldir dying, the Elves who could have lived forever dying for the sake of Men, etc, etc, etc.).

(Holds out soapbox)

Anyone else want it?

 

[Storm Raven]

She doesn't.

In the book, Elrond's sons Elladan and Elrohir go to Helms Deep

Umm, no they don't. They show up with the other rangers after Gandalf, Aragorn, Theoden, Legolas and Gimli go to Isenguard to confront Saruman.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I see there is some support out there for the idea of Arwen going with Aragorn on the Paths of the Dead.
Some support, and even one or two who agree with me that Arwen should have been at Helm's Deep.

The majority, however, do not agree with Arwen at Helm's Deep or on the Paths of the Dead.
Why is this?
Is it because this is a corruption of Tolkien's writing?
Is it because Arwen is simply no warrior, and belongs in no battle?
Is it because Arwen is taking up screen time, when screen time is precious?

I agree that Arwen is taking up screen time in a film that has none to spare.
I agree that she is no warrior (ESPECIALLY not if you go with Tolkien's conception.)

However, people do things for love.
People, do the most dangerous and courageous things for love.
I can see a woman, even a non-fighter (and Peter Jackson depicts Arwen as a fighter) going to Helm's Deep to be with her love in his darkest hour to date.

If Peter Jackson insists on putting Arwen in the film and taking up film time, insists on trying to make us care about this elven woman and her plight, and care about what she does, then shouldn't he have a powerful resolution to this love story he has put onscreen?
Perhaps Helm's Deep wasn't the best resolution - I thought it would have been, and I know Peter Jackson must have thought so (why else would he have filmed Arwen at Helm's Deep? I know he cut those scenes, but he did film them.)
Perhaps the Paths of the Dead are a better resolution, but that road involves all the dangers of the Hornburg, and then some more dangers on top of that.

Can you imagine Tolkien's Elrond allowing his daughter to go off on a road that leads to undead monsters, then to all out war with the Corsairs, then to all out battle with the colossal Morgul Host and Black Captain? (And no, Aragorn had no way to know the Black Captain was dead.)
In the books, Elrond protected his daughter as throughly as any 19th century father would protect his daughter, with all the good and bad implications of that treatment included.

I think that yeah, with Peter Jackson's conception of Arwen, she could be at Helm's Deep and it could work.
I think it should have been done.
I am endorsing, in effect, a severe corruption of Tolkien's character and thinking, and I admit it (but Peter Jackson already has done this.)

I respect the Professor enough to say: Ok, perhaps they should have left Arwen as Tolkien created her.
But they didn't. They altered the character.
If they are going to do this, they might as well have a good resolution to the love story they created between Aragorn and this altered character!

 

[WizarDru]

She doesn't.

In the book, Elrond's sons Elladan and Elrohir go to Helms Deep.

I knew about Elrond's sons at Isengard...but I was confused, having just read the book, to think that I'd missed some huge part. I was wondering if this was an appendix addition, or something.

In my opinion, PJ handled it much better by having Haldir go to Helm's Deep, because not only did it give a relatively minor character more screen time without adding baggage, but it also provided for an emotional death scene which served to bring a poignant hint of the cost of such a war [/B]

I agree. I know that on opening day, a girl sitting next to me was shocked when Haldir was killed, and I heard someone else say "Oh, no...." at that scene. I think it worked.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Personally I am a purist and don't want to see Arwen anywhere near the final battles. I am already irked at some of the changes that were made. That said, and acknoweging that PJ needs to make some changes to make the film work and that we have to work with what we have already, I voted just to keep her out of battle and the Paths of the Dead.

Arwen is not a fighter so far in this film. The closest that she comes is the chase and the taunting the Nazgul at the ford. (Who caused the flood is another dispute I have but will not go into detail on) At the ford she was brave, but she did not fight and I have yet to see her in this movie as anything other than a love interest.

Personally I see it as a very bad idea to stick her in battle or on the Paths of the Dead. I would see her more as a liability than anything else. When Aragorn is fighting should he realy be thinking about her being in the same danger as he is. He's certainly willing to sacrifice his own life but if the danger is so great and he loves her so much wouldn't he be worried and distracted in battle making sure she is alright. If he isn't worried about her then I can come to only three conclusions none of which are very good. 1. He doesn't love her so much that he isn't willing to sacrifice his life for hers (This negates the love story) 2. The danger isn't so great that he has to worry about her (This reduces the tension and sense of imenent danger) or 3. She's as good a fighter as he is (What kind of hero is Aragorn if his girlfriend is as good or better than he is? Are all the elves this good at fighting or is it just her? If it is just her why didn't she accompany the fellowship? and if she is just an average elf it only shows that the best a man can be is still far inferior to the elves. Not the kind of message I want to hear. Why waste time with the men at all when the elves could toast sauron by themselves.) Why drag all of these questions up when you can just leave her out of combat altogether like Tolkien intended.

If you realy need her to deliver the sword and banner then fine. Meet up with him at the appointed time for the grey company between Helm's Deep and Isengaurd. She drops off the stuff. they have a sweet reunion (waste of screen time) and then he heads off to the Paths of Dead on his own (after picking up the Palantir at Isengaurd). She then heads out with Gandalf to Minas Tirith where it is safe (relatively speaking). After the battle they get together again, they have a wedding, and everyone lives happily ever after. This way Arwen gets screen time and the purists arn't any more peeved than we already are.