Let's Go Get Sushi and Not Pay: Snarfsplainin' White Collar Crime

[Kaodi]

Sorry, that was a bit opaque. And you you what they say - in for a penny, in for a pound.

Our "heroine" comes into a power called the Left Hand of Death, whose main effect is that she literally has the power to dissolve the flesh of living (and dead) creatures using her left hand. Her nemesis has the Jaws of Death, which allows him to drink blood/life force in order to extend his own life. He is the epitome of dark money, and has vast wealth, owing to how much easier being alive for hundreds of years or more.

I suppose it is a little, or a lot, on the nose that he is basically a vampire. And seeing as their powers are related both he and Red Ink have related powers they both have the standard suite of abilities that vampires and superheroes have in common: strength, speed, and durability of varying degrees. Those are what Red Ink relies on most of the time because she views her actual power as being too horrific.

But she does use it for one thing: carving into the people she targets the amount of money they stole or otherwise mishandled. After she kills them. Because, you know, that is where the Punisher comparison comes in. It is her MO, and to her mind it definitely scares the people she thinks should be scared (and, uh, a lot of other people, but I have not parsed out everything).

 

[Kaodi]

So... have you seen the TV show Leverage (and the recent sequel, Leverage Redemption)? It's about a team of hyper-skilled criminals who use their skills to take down those who use their wealth and power to get away with robbing people and reveling in being mostly untouchable by the normal justice system.

According to the showrunner (John Rogers, who I believe wrote a 4e book), many of the show's villains were based on real nefariousness, but toned down to make it believable.

I have never watched Leverage but I definitely know what it is, just like I know who jonrog1 is, ; ) .

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There's a reason that CEOs and psychopaths share many (Most? All?) the same character traits.

Look at the Dark Triad/Quartad, and how they correlate with murderers, con men, CEOs, politicians and others.

 

[Staffan]

There are numerous other factors that I am not addressing, but the dichotomy between "white collar" and other crime exists. In short, if you want to do crime in America, go BIG or go HOME.

As for the purpose of the post? Two reasons. First, most white collar prosecutions occur when there is enough public outrage over something to force the prosecution, or the acts are so egregious that they must be prosecuted. Second, this might serve as a helpful reminder that the next time we see an account of perfidious behavior in the RPG sphere involving a company doin' bad stuff.... remember, criminal prosecutions are the exception, not the rule.

I get your explanations, and recognize that this is how things work. But I believe that this is toxic, and a big part of why the world is as effed as it is. Were I in charge, I would drastically increase the resources available to prosecute this kind of thing, and increase personal liability for the people running corporations committing crimes as well as removing the ability to get out of financial liability for criminal activity via bankruptcy.

I am reminded of a recent case where a high-profile NY real estate developer was found to have committed fraud by reporting different valuations of his company's properties in different circumstances, and was fined rather a large amount as a consequence. As this was discussed on TV, another financial tycoon who has become famous for Shark Tank among other things said "So what, everybody does that!". To me, that's an indicator that perhaps there's a new target for investigation right there.

 

[MGibster]

get your explanations, and recognize that this is how things work. But I believe that this is toxic, and a big part of why the world is as effed as it is. Were I in charge, I would drastically increase the resources available to prosecute this kind of thing, and increase personal liability for the people running corporations committing crimes as well as removing the ability to get out of financial liability for criminal activity via bankruptcy.

You generally can't use bankruptcy to discharge any debt incurred by a prosecution for criminal liability in the United States. Bankruptcy won't allow you to discharge debts under a variety of conditions including a civil judgment for willful and malicious behavior injuries, government fines, student loans, debts secured by property, etc., etc. in most states.

There's a reason that CEOs and psychopaths share many (Most? All?) the same character traits.

In general, most psychopaths don't go very far in life because their behavior is ultimately self-destructive as they're typically impulsive, lacking self-control. There are studies that point to CEOs having a lot in common with psychopaths and others showing they tend towards having healthy personalities. Ted Bundy is probably the poster child for the intelligent, charming psychopath and he couldn't complete college and mostly held down dead end, low paying jobs.

 

[Staffan]

You generally can't use bankruptcy to discharge any debt incurred by a prosecution for criminal liability in the United States. Bankruptcy won't allow you to discharge debts under a variety of conditions including a civil judgment for willful and malicious behavior injuries, government fines, student loans, debts secured by property, etc., etc. in most states.

The point of a corporation is to shield its owners from liability beyond what they have invested in the corporation. I mean, there are other reasons as well, but that's the main one. If the corp folds and there are not enough assets to cover its liabilities, those owed money are SOL. This should not apply to debts incurred through malice. This would prevent nonsense like the "Texas divisional merger" where a corporation can put various liabilities in a subsidiary and have that subsidiary declare bankruptcy (see: Johnson & Johnson doing just that with the liabilities incurred by selling talc powder which they knew could contain traces of asbestos and thus be carcinogenic).

Oh, and in a case like J&J, the execs in charge should also be charged with whatever crime is appropriate for having caused the deaths of those who died from cancer they got from using their talc.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ted Bundy is probably the poster child for the intelligent, charming psychopath and he couldn't complete college and mostly held down dead end, low paying jobs.

He graduated from University of Washington in 1972, as a psych major. “With distinction.”

In September 1973 he began taking night classes at the School of Law at the University of Puget Sound. However, Bundy was soon skipping classes because he was busy killing. In 1974, he enrolled in the University of Utah law school.

His killings interfered with his attendance, but he still did well on tests. And he didn’t actually stop his law studies until he got convicted of kidnapping.

That period of legal study enabled him to represent himself in his murder trials, well enough that the judge who handed down the guilty verdict commented that he’d have been a great attorney.

 

[Aeson]

I am reminded of a recent case where a high-profile NY real estate developer was found to have committed fraud by reporting different valuations of his company's properties in different circumstances, and was fined rather a large amount as a consequence. As this was discussed on TV, another financial tycoon who has become famous for Shark Tank among other things said "So what, everybody does that!". To me, that's an indicator that perhaps there's a new target for investigation right there.

And I recall apologist "news" networks calling it a victimless crime. "No one was hurt." But people were harmed. The state is the people. The people of New York were harmed.

 

[MGibster]

In September 1973 he began taking night classes at the School of Law at the University of Puget Sound. However, Bundy was soon skipping classes because he was busy killing. In 1974, he enrolled in the University of Utah law school.

I'm not arguing Bundy was stupid, only that he was impulsive and it held him back. Had he some self-control he could have completed law school and likely had a decent career ahead of him. But he couldn't control himself and even if he didn't get caught he probably wasn't going to have a decent career anywhere. Oddly enough, lawyer is supposed to be a good fit for a psychopath, but I doubt many of them would actually be successful at practicing law.

And I recall apologist "news" networks calling it a victimless crime. "No one was hurt." But people were harmed. The state is the people. The people of New York were harmed.

I've had to explain to many others that the people are the victims. If you have a system where those who do not cheat are penalized, where corruption is expected, you have a system that is more expensive for everyone. New York is one of the most important business centers in the world, and it's important that people who do business there know everyone isn't cheating.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

It might be hard to properly show all the action though.

Not that hard! The Guns of Navarone has nothing on this action!