D&D 4E Love It or Leave It: 4E Multiclassing

What is your overall opinion of the 4E multiclassing rules?

  • Generally positive...I like what I'm seeing.

    Votes: 385 75.9%
  • Generally negative...I don't like what I'm seeing.

    Votes: 122 24.1%

I like it. I'm not jumping up and down with joy, but it seems to be a decent system that avoids the horrible issues of multiclassing in 3e. Here's what I like and don't like so far:

Pros:

:1: It doesn't require pre-planning to be effective, unlike 3e multiclassing. Players will be more free to be spontaneous without the risk of ruining their characters.

:2: Character creation will also be easier and faster now, without having to look up and add together base attack and saving throw bonuses, work out skill ranks, and all the other tedious homework that was creating a multiclass character in 3e.

:3: You can dabble in another class if you want, taking a power or two you like without a significant investment of class levels that cripples your character in his first class.

:4: Characters can now multiclass into a magic-using class and the spells they gain will be effective, unlike 3e where the reliance on caster level crippled multiclass spellcasters and required prestige classes to work effectively.

:5: There doesn't seem to be any particularly broken combinations at this point, unlike 3e where things like stacking 1st level class features and saving throw bonuses was readily apparent and often abused.

:6: "Favored class" (and the 20% experience penalty for violating it) are gone. :D

Cons:

:bmelee: There doesn't seem to be any way to gain the basic features of another class, like sneak attack at-will, etc. Multiclassing as your paragon path may adress this.

:melee: You can only take the multiclass feat from one class. This seems to be a really unnecessary restriction to me, but it's easy enough to allow as a house rule.

:ranged: The multiclass feats seem to be far better options than other feats, like skill training. I hope this isn't true, as it would make taking a multiclass feat a no-brainer.

:close: The sneak attack 1/ encounter is much, much weaker than the ability to apply hunter's quarry on one enemy per encounter. Which would you take, +2d6 damage on a single attack that requires combat advantage and only works with specific weapons, or +1d6 damage on every attack you make on an enemy for the entire encounter?
 
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Engilbrand said:
For those who have problems with the whole "only 2" thing:
Picture, if you will, a college kid.

Ahhh, no. Let me stop you right there. There is no point in bringing in a "real world" analogy to try and prove a point on multiclassing. It just won't work. Sorry...

FWIW, I don't have a problem with being limited to X amount of classes for multiclassing. I don't care if there is a 2 class cap or a 5 class cap. I think it is a good idea to have some sort of cap (since 3E didn't). But using RW analogies will not win your case for you.

I don't like 4E multiclassing from what I have seen, and it's not because of a cap on how many classes you can multi into. The system just smacks of something that threw together last minute. Doesn't seem like there was any thought involved at all. Just make some multiclassing feats and be done with it. Like some other poster said, it is an interesting idea but calling it multi-classing is misleading. Cross-class training is about as close as it gets to what they present here. You are no longer multiclassing. You are still a single class that happens to borrow a power or 3 of another class. Bah I say. Bah.
 


It's perfectly fine, although I have never been a big multiclass fan anyhow. I like that it's more dabbling than taking another class wholesale.
 

I like it, I would however like other options to exist, since I feel that feats at 1/every 2 levels is still fairly limiting.

I wonder how broken it would be to allow each character to select one non-class power (and they can re-train it later, of course) for free. Probably wouldn't do that, but I would like to be able to trade something "equivalent to a feat" (a +1 or 2 to hit, defenses, AC, hit points, etc. maybe?) for the ability to take a class power.

Or maybe you could give a "buy two powers with feats, get one free!" type deal... it might work out, since while they have more powers to choose from, assumedly they're losing something by giving up feats.
 

The "dabble in a class" option we've seen seems more of door left open for those who wants to take an alternate paragon path rather than true multi classing but I like the concept. What I'd like to see now is how to swap your paragon choice for another class...
 


I rather liked the system they used in Star Wars SAGA.

I am a bit confused however, what does a Fighter who wants to learn Wizard powers gain by taking the actual Wizard class instead of Battle Mage Paragon Path? And what of a Wizard that wants to learn Fighter powers for that matter?
 
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Falling Icicle said:
Cons:

:bmelee: There doesn't seem to be any way to gain the basic features of another class, like sneak attack at-will, etc. Multiclassing as your paragon path may address this.

:close: The sneak attack 1/ encounter is much, much weaker than the ability to apply hunter's quarry on one enemy per encounter. Which would you take, +2d6 damage on a single attack that requires combat advantage and only works with specific weapons, or +1d6 damage on every attack you make on an enemy for the entire encounter?

These are the two things that leave me undecided at the moment.

getting access to spells/exploits etc from other classes is OK, but what about some of the basic class features? What if you want someone to be able to sneak attack at will but otherwise not be a rogue? What if you've got a ranger who would like to be able to take on the core defensive abilities of a fighter (re opportunity attacking) alongside his own stuff.

Similarly, the multiclass feat options don't seem especially equal - sneak attack vs hunters mercy mentioned above, for instance.

What it does, it does well. I'm not sure about the apparent omission of the things it doesn't seem to do.

Cheers
 

3.x multiclassing had a lot to recommend it. It also had a lot it handled poorly without a PrC "patch", such as primary spellcasters multiclassing with just about anything.

4e multiclassing is an entirely different beast. It isn't descended from 3.x multiclassing; you can't compare it directly.

I'll say that I enjoyed a lot of the strengths of the 3.x multiclassing and were annoyed by it's weaknesses but it was generally positive.

I really don't have a feel for this until I try it. Wanting to do a fighter/magic-user/thief seems right out, but I'm not wedded to "if it's not backwards compatible, it's garbage".

A previous poster mentions it feels bolted on, and I think that's spot on. From early design blogs we know they were still touching it late in the process. So whatever they came up with couldn't cause any paradigm shifts. This fits into the existing structure as opposed to helping define the structure.

I think a problem I have is assuming that there are enough classes to encompass a character. If I want to play a fighter who dabbles in magic, I can do it with this. If I want to play a wizard with a sword, I can also do it. But if I want to play something right in the middle, I need to wait for a new core class, maybe the swordmage. To put it another way, classes fill a lot of niches. This widens the niches, reducing the gap between them by allowing dabbling from other classes. But there are still gaps that can't be reached.

Now, how multiclassing instead of a paragon class goes towards filling it we'll still have to see.

That all said, there are lots of things I like about it and I'm more than willing to play it. It's a different beast.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)
 

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