D&D 4E Love It or Leave It: 4E Multiclassing

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually I consider multiclassing "front loaded"

Right now I don´t see the point of not taking a multiclass feat if you want skill training anyway...

A feat that grants a feat looks just broken...

 

[Alkiera]

One thing to note: Most of the Paragon Paths posted so far have been basically 'specialization of base class' things. I can imagine having paragon paths that require more than one 'class'; being built for a more Gish-like 50/50 build. Or at least are sub-optimal for the required clas if taken straight, but make sense for a multi-classed character.

One example is the mentioned Wizard PP that gives you the ability to use a weapon as an Implement instead of a wand or whatever. Why would an average wizard want a melee weapon in hand? AoOs? Hardly. This sounds like it's custom built for melee/Wizard hybrids, like AE's Mageblade, where your sword-in-hand counts for the somatic components of spells.

Add in the fact that PPs are soo much shorter than a full class, so they can publish 'The Complete Gish' with intended-for-multiclass Paragon Paths for every combination of classes, different ones for Wizard/Fighter and Fighter/Wizard, maybe multiples for some combos. When PHB2 comes out, have Complete Gish 2, with rules for being a Ranger/Shaman, or whatever.

I think that kind of thing will go far for a lot of the more gishy multiclass concepts. With no BAB to get screwed out of, flexibility of defenses in relation to stats, etc, this will probably be the best D&D yet for going from concept to characteristics, and coming out with a workable character.

I also wonder for some of these odd 'I wanna channel spells through my dagger to kill people' concepts... Did they think of that before or after the PrC was published that made doing it possible? Would the character have taken wizard levels if the PrC itself granted spellcasting along with the 'channel magic through dagger' ability? It sounds like 'Rogue' and 'Wizard' were less classes and more speedbumps on the way to the class you really wanted to play... just ways to hit the pre-reqs.

 

[Ximenes088]

Actually I consider multiclassing "front loaded"

Right now I don´t see the point of not taking a multiclass feat if you want skill training anyway...

A feat that grants a feat looks just broken...

Even if you have no desire to multiclass, you will only ever take a class training feat if A) you want one of the two skills it grants and B) you have the 13 in stats it requires. It's foolish to spend 5 attribute points buying Str 13 as a wizard just so you can get fighter training for the skill and perk. Want +1 to hit? _Buy more Int._

 

[Kordeth]

Right now I don´t see the point of not taking a multiclass feat if you want skill training anyway...

You might not want Skill Training in the particular skill(s) a given class-specific feat represents.

You might not meet the ability prerequisites for the multiclass feat.

You might want to multiclass into a different class than the one that grants a skill you want.

Skill Training might do more than give you one trained skill.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Generally I like it, but I am very concerned about the retraining rules. If it is possible to take the wizard's fireball at X level, and then move up to Chin lightning at Y level, that might be fine. But if it is possible to go sneak attack at X level and then Chain lightning at Y level, I would not support it. I am a fan of living with your choices.

 

[Xethreau]

I find them acceptable, but I was kind of expecting something more... At least for the "secondary" feats. I am very pleased with the "class training" classing feats. I find the "Class Power" feats to be uninspired. IMO, there is no reason for three follow-up feats. I might end up house ruleing that, supposing a lack of further revelation of rationale.

-edit-

That was my opinion of this level's feats (which were messed up). I find the "Class Power" feats to be very acceptable now.

 

[Counterspin]

The article says that you can upgrade your trade in power at every level, so I'm afraid your not going to be happy Dice4hire.

 

[pawsplay]

Generally I like it, but I am very concerned about the retraining rules. If it is possible to take the wizard's fireball at X level, and then move up to Chin lightning at Y level, that might be fine. But if it is possible to go sneak attack at X level and then Chain lightning at Y level, I would not support it. I am a fan of living with your choices.

And why is that? At least in theory, a power of the same level should just be the same shazam with a different flavor text and different limitations and benefits. Chain Lightning could, in theory, be balanced against something like a sneak attack that allows you to move a step and attack another foe in succession if you hit.

 

[Just Another User]

Now, we don't have full 50/50s. But we DO have a structure that lets a Fighter/Wizard cast a Fireball and expect it to rock someone's world. That fireball is no longer massively gimped by coming from a multiclass character. Likewise, a Wizard/Fighter who wants to bust someone's head with an ax can take a Fighter power that lets him do that, and gains a great backup for when things get dirty and close quarters.

I think the wizard /fighte would be a gimped combination, because while he have the Power he lack the armors that would give him enough AC to enter in melee to use it, the hit points and healing surges to survive that melee and the proficiences to use weapons with enough damage to make those power worthwhile. the wizard fighter in your example, can't use an axe, unless he pay a feat for it. A fighter/wizard could be acceptable, a wizard/fighter need to invest in a lot of feats before to be worth it.
If I'm not missing something, of course.

 

[Lacyon]

I think the wizard /fighte would be a gimped combination, because while he have the Power he lack the armors that would give him enough AC to enter in melee to use it, the hit points and healing surges to survive that melee and the proficiences to use weapons with enough damage to make those power worthwhile. the wizard fighter in your example, can't use an axe, unless he pay a feat for it. A fighter/wizard could be acceptable, a wizard/fighter need to invest in a lot of feats before to be worth it.
If I'm not missing something, of course.

Well, the Wizard->Fighter doesn't have to pay a seperate feat for Ritual Casting (for example). He also gets access to several cantrips, and the spellbook which allows him to know extra Daily powers, as well as implement mastery and maybe a couple of other things.

So the Wizard->Fighter would be more Wizard than fighter, but still probably pretty close on the balance. I guess we'll know more in June.