D&D 4E Love It or Leave It: 4E Multiclassing

[Celebrim]

Am I not understanding how the wizard training skill works? You get a wizard encounter-level power for one feat? Why wouldn't EVERYBODY dabble in wizard? Screw Dodge. I'm going to get Stoneskin (or the like) for my fighter...

I think you get 1 wizard 'at will' power as an encounter power. The way I read it you can magic missile once per encounter. Still good, but not that good. However, add to that getting trained in the Arcana skill and access to wizard feats, and yeah, why not?

Similarly, why would anyone take weapon focus when they can dabble in fighter, get +1 to attacks and get trained in an additional skill and can mark a foe and access to fighter feats?

 

[SmilingPiePlate]

It really depends on what other feats there are.

I seem to remember reading on these boards that feats are supposed to enhance existing abilities, and that the feats that opened up new combat maneuvers are mostly class features in 4e. So these feats may stack up to be about even with the other feats you can take.

 

[Green Knight]

In 3.5, Mike would have 8 levels of Wizard and then start taking Rogue. In 4th, though, he would probably just start taking the multiclass feats as he levels up. He may even then take a Paragon Path for a Rogue to emphasize his growing skills. What's the problem that I see? Well, he's just as powerful as he's always been, even though he's not focusing on his spellcasting.

Two points.

1) What you describe is true of 3.5. Mike the Wizard, after multiclassing to Rogue, is still an 8th-level Wizard. Unless he gets level drained or burns an inordinate amount of XP on creating magic items, he'll be an 8th-level Wizard til the end of time.

2) Mike the Wizard would, in fact, see his spellcasting atrophy in 4E. Say he's 7th-level. He decides he wants to learn Rogue skills, so at 8th-level he takes the Sneak of Shadows Feat. He now has the Sneak skill and can Sneak Attack once per Encounter.

He levels up to 9th-level and, through Feat Retraining, selects the Novice Power Feat. He can now select a Rogue Exploit, substituting it for a Spell. He opts for a 7th-level Rogue Exploit. In the process, he loses a 7th-level Spell. His spellcasting just atrophied, as he's no longer as powerful a spellcaster as he was.

He reaches 10th-level and chooses the Acolyte Power Feat, while taking Adept Power through retraining. Mike the Wizard can now take one Rogue Daily Power and Rogue Utility Power, at the expense of his Wizard Powers. So once again, his skills as a Wizard drop, as he loses a 9th-Level Daily Spell and a 10th-Level Utility Spell, and gains a 9th-Level Daily Exploit and 10th-Level Utility Exploit in their place.

So Mike the Wizard is, in fact, not as powerful a Wizard as he used to be, as he's lost three spells in favor of his new Rogue abilities. The same wouldn't be true of 3.5 Mike the Wizard, who will always have the same Wizard abilities no matter what.

 

[Kordeth]

I think you get 1 wizard 'at will' power as an encounter power. The way I read it you can magic missile once per encounter. Still good, but not that good. However, add to that getting trained in the Arcana skill and access to wizard feats, and yeah, why not?

Given what you get from the other initiate feats (limited use of a class ability), I imagine you get a once-per-encounter use of one of the wizard's at-will cantrip class features, not any wizard power.

Similarly, why would anyone take weapon focus when they can dabble in fighter, get +1 to attacks and get trained in an additional skill and can mark a foe and access to fighter feats?

1) Might not want training in a fighter skill.

2) Might not want to multiclass to fighter.

3) Weapon Focus might be different in 4E.

 

[TerraDave]

Its Nerflicious!







(and positive, for now)

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think it's great. You may not have the freedom of 3.x, but that freedom was mostly used to abuse.

And Cadfan: I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees Paladins as an obvious Fighter/Cleric.

Fitz

 

[Green Knight]

Given what you get from the other initiate feats (limited use of a class ability), I imagine you get a once-per-encounter use of one of the wizard's at-will cantrip class features, not any wizard power.

I doubt that's the case. It says "Wizard Power 1". Cantrips aren't powers. They're class features.

 

[baberg]

Ok, so I'm a little slow, so bear with me.

I pick my class: "I'm a fighter!"
I start picking my feats: "Toughness, Power Attack..."
We have no cleric, so I also pick "Initiate of the Faith"

Now as I level up I can:
- Pick Cleric feats
- Pick Fighter feats
- Get all of the Fighter powers at the appropriate level
- Pick the "Swap Power" feats which let me remove a power I rarely use from Fighter and swap it with a power that a Cleric would be using (of equal or lesser level)
- When I hit 11 and it's time to pick a Paragon Path, I can pick any Cleric or Fighter path

 

[BASHMAN]

Love it.

Its very different from 3e multiclassing. But its a better solution.

A 3e multiclass character often fell far from both trees. For example, if you played a multiclass 50/50 fighter/wizard, and you ever tried to rely on straight melee with no magical buffs, you were a fool. You lacked the HP, attack bonus, and AC to accomplish that. Likewise, if you tried to rely on throwing fireballs at someone, you were (less, but still) a fool. Your best bet was to create a hybrid buff/power attack/polymorph combination that resembled none of the original classes. Or, run as fast as you could for a PRC.

Now, we don't have full 50/50s. But we DO have a structure that lets a Fighter/Wizard cast a Fireball and expect it to rock someone's world. That fireball is no longer massively gimped by coming from a multiclass character. Likewise, a Wizard/Fighter who wants to bust someone's head with an ax can take a Fighter power that lets him do that, and gains a great backup for when things get dirty and close quarters.

Meanwhile, the 50/50s sucked before until you got a PRC to fix them. Now they'll need base classes. Its not that different, but it does have a "we meant to do it this way" vibe that 3e multiclass PRCs did not. I'm ok with that. We've already got one (in spite of what people pretend, paladin is a cleric/fighter hybrid, always has been). The spellblade or whatever the heck its called is coming out rather soon for those who want magical buffs and teleports to augment their melee.

I think that Gestalt would have been a better way to go.

 

[Ximenes088]

Similarly, why would anyone take weapon focus when they can dabble in fighter, get +1 to attacks and get trained in an additional skill and can mark a foe and access to fighter feats?

Because unless you're a Strength-based class, it's cheaper to buy 2 more points of your prime attribute than to buy Str 13 to qualify for fighter training. And if you do buy it, you better not want to multiclass anywhere else.