Love: stronger than Magic?

[woodelf]

Reflecting on fantasy and mythic literature that comprises the basis for D&D one is struck by the absence of Love in the game. Mechanics are almost impossible to bring to bear on the subject, but it seems that there should be some way to employ the idea of a true, undying Love in the game.

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Any ideas on how else to employ this in the game?

Have you checked out Love & War? It sorta covers this sort of thing. It's aimed specifically at the notion of love as portrayed in Arthurian romance, and the like, but it seems to me that the rules would be a good place to start from, especially if you're using a D20 System game. Check out <http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10551.phtml>. But don't take too long--anything with a D20 System logo will be disappearing at the end of teh year, right?

 

[kibbitz]

I am primarily familiar with the Original Generation games that actually got translated here in the US, so that is my baseline. I guess this goes to show that in the internet, there is always someone who is more familiar with your fandom than you are, no matter where you post and how obscure it may be...

I guess I may as well mention the Star Ocean 2 mechanic, where characters get angry and do double damage with their attacks if their loved one is reduced to zero hitpoints. That one actually pulled me out of a few tight spots, especially when the main hero (the game's strongest physical fighter) watches the main heroine (the fragile but essential healer) go down...

Thinking about it, I may as well also mention the Fire Emblem "Support/Bond" system, where characters with strong bonds of love, friendship, or rivalry improve each other's stats if they are standing near each other. Actually, I think many Super Robot Taisen games have something similar, though it is less customizable and usually less visible.

Well, I am an SRT fan, just glad to see one here With regards to FE's support bond system, IIRC, SRT R for GBA and W had friendship and love bonuses for appropriate pilots adjacent to each other on the map. Love gave larger bonuses. The remade Original Generations and Original Generation Gaiden (Side story) for the PS2 features a a slightly more complex relationship table, with Friendship, Rivalry and Love bonuses and different pilots giving different ranks of said bonus to other pilots

Back on track, would it be unfair/unbalancing/unsatisfactory to give Love Points which function like Action/Hero/Fate Points? I could see it as a reward for players willing to roleplay, as long as everyone doesn't start getting a lover for convenience And it could be scaled up or down in effectiveness for taste still... and the other question that popped up... should characters with love unrequited yet true benefit from something like this? Could help with some noble sacrifice moments.

 

[Cam Banks]

My favorite roleplaying game is Greg Stafford's King Arthur Pendragon. One of the aspects of your character sheet is your list of Passions, which include Loyalty (lord), Love (family), Honor, Hospitality, and so forth. They're all rated from 1-20 like the other Pendragon characteristics. These Passions are used in the game to reflect the drives and compulsions that influence your actions. Specifically, you can be inspired by your Passions, which gives you a bonus to a roll that concerns the object of the Passion.

As an example, say you have Loyalty (lord) 15 and you are struggling to fight off a horde of Saxons who have laid siege to your lord's small keep. You might tell the GM that you feel your Loyalty (lord) should inspire you to fight harder to keep the Saxons from reaching him and his family, so you roll. A success gives you a bonus to your weapon skill for the remainder of the battle.

You could introduce the same sort of thing to your D&D 4E game by having the players choose three or four Passions, starting off at 5 plus half your level. When a situation comes up where you believe you might be inspired by a Passion, you'd roll against a standard DC of 15. If you succeed, you add a +2 bonus to your checks in support of your Passion's object. A critical success would boost that to a +5 and increases your Passion by +1, while rolling a 1 sends you into melancholy over your lack of conviction and makes you dazed (as well as lowering your Passion by 1 point.)

Otherwise, I would seriously consider picking up a copy of KAP. It's in its 5th edition, published by White Wolf's Arthaus imprint, though it could be hard to track down in stores. There really is no better representation of love, honor, chivalry, and other knightly traits in RPGs.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Aus_Snow]

Otherwise, I would seriously consider picking up a copy of KAP. It's in its 5th edition, published by White Wolf's Arthaus imprint, though it could be hard to track down in stores. There really is no better representation of love, honor, chivalry, and other knightly traits in RPGs.

Gods, yes. Personally, there's no 'otherwise' about it. Just pick one up anyway! I like 4th ed. best, but they are all fairly similar anyway, so it doesn't matter too much, and besides, different strokes and all that. If you want 'hard to track down' (or perhaps 'priced all insane-like') go for the Great Pendragon Campaign. Yikes.

But yeah, I ended up grafting whole aspects of that RPG onto d20 fantasy, after trying a few other things.

Besides which, it's - as you say - a damn fine RPG in its own right.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Well, I am an SRT fan, just glad to see one here With regards to FE's support bond system, IIRC, SRT R for GBA and W had friendship and love bonuses for appropriate pilots adjacent to each other on the map. Love gave larger bonuses. The remade Original Generations and Original Generation Gaiden (Side story) for the PS2 features a a slightly more complex relationship table, with Friendship, Rivalry and Love bonuses and different pilots giving different ranks of said bonus to other pilots

Actually, those Friendship/Rivalry/Love bonuses were at least in Original Generation 2 for the GBA, and possibly in OG1 as well, so it wasn't just the remake that had them. There is no reference in either the game or its manual to their existence in those games, and there is no indicator of where you can move to benefit from them, but they do exist and can have a huge impact (the number of large bonuses that Sanger or Elzam can benefit from is ridiculous, easily enough to get them +20 to hit and evade).

Back on track, would it be unfair/unbalancing/unsatisfactory to give Love Points which function like Action/Hero/Fate Points? I could see it as a reward for players willing to roleplay, as long as everyone doesn't start getting a lover for convenience And it could be scaled up or down in effectiveness for taste still... and the other question that popped up... should characters with love unrequited yet true benefit from something like this? Could help with some noble sacrifice moments.

I don't think it would be very hard to implement a system simply by expanding upon the 4E action point system. Either you give particular bonuses to action point use according to context, or simply hand out extra action points or give a boost equal to the use of action point (essentially an action point that the PC can't control freely) whenever appropriate.

As for balance... I think it would be best that any system that gave bonuses for love would also work to give bonuses for loyalty, righteous anger, a warrior's pride, honor, bravery, and every other notable emotion. Even "negative" emotions like fear, greed, and jealousy can work. I have some idea for a "personality power" system fueled by action points, but it is not fleshed out at all so I might post it later.