Love the Game, Hate the Marketing

[Lord Fyre]

Compare to the Internet, where the max potential audience is: every English-speaking person who is connected to the Internet. And hey, if it turns out 200,000 people want that content, no problem--they can have it. No need for a costly new print run. Just go to the site. And if it turns out only 10,000 people want that content, no big deal. It's not like you just wasted money printing and shipping 90,000 unsold physical copies.

I think that might be the biggest single factor in shutting down the physical Dragon Magazine.

Even if the online version is not as successful as the print vesion, if a large percentage of the physical magazine does not sell, then that is a lot of money wasted.

And having "dead" inventory on the shelves helps no-one. (No to be confused with "undead" inventory which is fine.)

 

[Fifth Element]

I think its really disingenuous of Mr. Rouse to say that the online content so far has been just fine, and we're all just really "wrong" in our perceptions.

You're misrepresenting Mr. Rouse's response here.

Notice how he said "It could be the OPs claims are true and content has fallen off but I suspect this is not the case based on how much I perceive we are putting out." He never called anyone "wrong", he was commenting on his perceptions, and admitted that he may, in fact, be incorrect.

 

[Mephistopheles]

For example: Are we delivering more or less total content as a whole (factoring articles, staff blogs, podcasts, videos etc across the multiple vehicles of Dragon, Dungeon, the free site)?

Are the e-mags delivering more or less monthly content than their print counterparts?

Granted I haven't been following all the podcasts and blogs and so on so I'm prepared to be corrected on this, but isn't most of the content Scott Rouse is referring to focused more on selling 4E rather than being actual content that might have been expected in the D&D magazines? Admittedly leading up to 3E we had the preview articles in Dragon, but I don't recall it being the majority of the magazine. I think it's a bit of a stretch to count that stuff (blogs, in particular) as content that people would be paying money for.

 

[Zinovia]

One can debate the issue of how much total information we're being given versus what was promised. I'm glad that the R&D staff takes the time to participate on forums here and at WotC, as well as making publicly accessible blogs. There's a lot of good information coming out of that, which is appreciated. But it's not part of the magazines, and is the sort of stuff that should never be subscription content.

I mentioned the magazines as part of marketing D&DI subscriptions. For the moment, what we're being given as our free preview isn't inclined to make me want to subscribe when the time comes to pony up with the credit cards. Of course things are in flux right now with the transition from print mags done by Paizo to the online versions done by WotC. They are understandably busy rolling out 4E and preparing for all the upcoming promotions. TANSTAAFL and all that jazz.

So while I understand that there are reasons for limited magazine content being published during this transitional phase, from a marketing perspective, the free preview is doing nothing to make me want to buy a subscription. I already know that I will be unable to use the VTT and Character Creator apps due to my choice in OS. The content I currently do have access to as part of the magazines (not blogs, message boards, and other stuff that should stay free), isn't worth the kind of fees I've heard talked about ($10-$15 a month).

I dislike the monthly fee model for additional rules content. I want to be able to look over the rules, and decide "Yes, that will work with our campaign and is worth my money" or not. Subscribing to online magazines is fine if there's enough there that I am willing to pay for. I dropped my Dragon subscription some time ago when it became filled with prestige classes, Forgotten Realms, and Eberron. I don't use those campaign settings or prestige classes so it became a waste of money for me. On the other hand, I could still buy a single issue at the newsstand if I felt like it was worth it.

So I'd prefer to see rules variants published in books, or ebooks rather than tied to a monthly subscription that requires me to pay for something without knowing what I'll get. Errata should *never* be tied to paying for a subscription either. Make them free or part of the ebook with it's nominal fee. I'd rather pay $5 or even $10 once for the new rules for a single class than have to shell out a monthly fee for unknown content.

 

[Mephistopheles]

So I'd prefer to see rules variants published in books, or ebooks rather than tied to a monthly subscription that requires me to pay for something without knowing what I'll get. Errata should *never* be tied to paying for a subscription either. Make them free or part of the ebook with it's nominal fee. I'd rather pay $5 or even $10 once for the new rules for a single class than have to shell out a monthly fee for unknown content.

From what WotC have said it seems like they're embracing electronic books with 4E. I think that's a really positive direction for them to take. They could more easily publish things that would not be economically feasible to do in print and sell them as cheap electronic books, perhaps even offering monthly compilations of DDI content for purchase independent of subscription.

 

[Mirtek]

When challenged about the lack of content in in the mags and the missed deadlines his response was to link total content from all blogs, podcasts etc etc as part of the information available to players and as such he felt that the "lack of content" claims were probably not valid.

I need to look for it, but someone over at the WotC boards made a direct comparision between printed Dragon/Dungeon and their DDI counterparts.

Article count, topic count, word count, .....

The results were devasting for the online versions. I will have to look for this thread

Edit: Found them. Although I remembered it a little bit wrong (not a comparison between ebook and printed mags but between ebooks and former free stuff), the results are just as bad for DDI. Part I & Part II

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, I gotta side with the negatives on this one. Blog posts are not part of Dragon. They aren't even linked anywhere in the Dragon magazine. How could they possibly be considered part of Dragon? I certainly don't consider the forums as being part of the magazine either.

 

[Raith5]

Strange, the words "Managing Expectations" have been hanging around in my head for some time now...

Even me as a f4nboy sometimes thing there could be more DDI content, but I did "forget" the podcats and didn't even consider the blog posts as part of the Dungeon & Dragon "online magazine". I think WotC will have to make the things it consideres part of the Dungeon & Dragon magazines clearer. The website should probably support a better navigation scheme for this, that makes it easy to identify to identify the parts of a single "online issue".

And once they finished that, they should check if they really have put out enough material, and if both quantity and quality are comparable to that of the original magazines (too which I can't say anything - I wasn't a subscriber. It's too much a hassle to get them in Germany, while the DDI is - for the moment, without the need of credit cards to pay the content - a lot more accessible).

I have been thinking the same thing. Managing expectations is absolutely the most important thing to do in an online environment. Expectations regarding a monthly magazine are simple, but in the online context unless you say we will do X on Y day(s) each week you are going to have confused and unsatisfied customers. And obviously it is better to have a modest initial goal and do more than to have an ambitious goal and not achieve it.

I wanted to get on board with the DDI but there is no way Im going to with regards to the current content.

But I hasten to add this is not a problem of marketing but one of overall business strategy. In the case of DDI, the strategy seems to have exceeded capacity by a significant amount IMO.

 

[fnwc]

Even if the online version is not as successful as the print vesion, if a large percentage of the physical magazine does not sell, then that is a lot of money wasted.

This is not just affecting Dragon magazine. Newspapers, in particular, are having a hard time competing with online news sources. A lot of print media is dying a slow, agonizing death.

 

[Zaruthustran]

This is not just affecting Dragon magazine. Newspapers, in particular, are having a hard time competing with online news sources. A lot of print media is dying a slow, agonizing death.

Yeah, print media is just poorly suited to the purpose of getting out news. To survive, it's got to shift the focus to presenting informed opinions, or exploring information in depth.

Online is simply the best way to receive up-to-date information. I get annoyed when I pick up a newspaper for something to read while at lunch, and it's filled with articles I read yesterday online at cnn.com or whatnot. It even extends to radio, where morning drive-time "news" (on Adam Carola or whatever) is just a repeat of yesterday's old Fark.com stories.