Low INT and skill points.

[Endur]

The int 6 human fighter gets 1 skill point per level. clearly.

BUT

He gets lots of feats. So he could take feats that give skill bonuses. i.e. the feats that give +2 to a couple of skills.

 

[Tauric]

Okay, so Iku Rex and I seem to be in the minority.

I guess the best thing to do would be give one skill point and then ask my DM what he thinks. Then perhaps I can add another.

I would have liked to get some backup from the boards, but I guess I can go it alone.

Thanks, all.

 

[Iku Rex]

The Constitution wording makes it clear that the 1 hp per level minimum is applied after only the Con penalty, but if you read Intelligence carefully, it holistically states that you gain at least 1 period.

What makes you think "you gain at least 1" somehow trumps "1 extra skill point"? There's no contradiction.

See table 4-1 on page 62. A human fighter with Int 6 gets 1 skill point (due to the minimum 1 skill point rule) and them as per the footnotes you "add +1".

 

[Rystil Arden]

What makes you think "you gain at least 1" somehow trumps "1 extra skill point"? There's no contradiction.

See table 4-1 on page 62. A human fighter with Int 6 gets 1 skill point (due to the minimum 1 skill point rule) and them as per the footnotes you "add +1".

Because you have to rely on the "you gain on least 1 skill point per level" rule to even have 1 skill point under such conditions, so clearly if your character falls under those conditions, you must live by that rule. Your fighter has 0 (minimum 1) = 1 skill points, and human puts him to 1 (minimum 1) = 1 in the same way that a 1st level Wizard with 2 Con has 0 (minimum 1) = 1 hit points, so that a +2 Belt of Constitution puts him up to 1 (minimum 1) = 1 hit point.

 

[Arkhandus]

Actually, a human gets 4 extra skill points at 1st-level. It is not 1 extra multiplied by 4. A human fighter with 6 Int gets 5 skill points to start with. The Intelligence modifier to skill points is applied to class level skill points.

Edit: Checking the 3.5 SRD again, I can't really find anything that says you get at least 1 skill point per level. But in my 3.0 Player's Handbook, it says that a character gets at least 4 skill points at 1st-level even if they have an Intelligence penalty, and that they get at least 1 skill point at each additional level regardless of Intelligence penalty. So I suppose that means the human bonus points would be factored in before the penalty. 1st-level human fighter with 6 Int = 4 skill points now, 1 skill point per level thereafter.

4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.

 

[Iku Rex]

Rystil Arden:

Humans get "1 extra skill point per level". This is a special rule for humans.

The human in the OP's example gets, according to you, one skill point.

Does or does not the human in the OP's example get one extra skill point?

If your answer is "yes" (and surely it has to be) then I have to ask you "1 extra skill point" compared to what? If it's "extra" then it has to relate to some "standard" value, right?

You keep insisting that the "1 extra skill point" the character gains "per level" should be factored in before you figure out how many skill points the character would get if he didn't get "extra" skill points. That does not make sense, game-mechanically or otherwise.

 

[CronoDekar]

Again though, the Constitution thing is different because it gives you +2 Con, not +1 hp/level. Another (although admittingly not very direct) support of Iku Rex's arguement is also on page 62, at the Skill at Higher Levels section. It mentions "A character gets at least 1 skill point at each new level, even if he or she has an Intelligence penalty.", and in the next line, "A human gets 1 extra skill point per level." This, to me, seems to indicate that the minimum 1 clause comes before the extra skill point.

Plus it seems odd to me that that having a low ability score could effectively nullify a racial benefit (as opposed to a racial penalty in which there's no loss, as mentioned in the dumb half-orc example).

 

[Rystil Arden]

Actually, a human gets 4 extra skill points at 1st-level. It is not 1 extra multiplied by 4. A human fighter with 6 Int gets 5 skill points to start with. The Intelligence modifier to skill points is applied to class level skill points.

Interesting, well if it is 4 extra and not 1 multiplied by 4, then that means that he would wind up with 4 skill points (2 - 2) * 4 + 4 = 4

 

[Arkhandus]

Edited my post based on what I could find in the 3.5 SRD and my 3.0 PH.

However, it does seem to me that with the format of the skill point stuff, Int mod only applies to class level/HD skill points, and that is what is multiplied at 1st-level. So for example, if humans had twice as many bonus skill points, but one of them had a 3 Int (-4 mod), they'd still get 8 sp at 1st-level and 2 sp each level beyond that in Fighter.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Plus it seems odd to me that that having a low ability score could effectively nullify a racial benefit (as opposed to a racial penalty in which there's no loss, as mentioned in the dumb half-orc example).

Tell that to my Gnome with 9 Charisma...