Pathfinder 2E Low-level Wizards in PF2 - are they still underpowered?

[CapnZapp]

I'm curious how many targets you'll get in the 15-foot cones, though.

Based on my previous-edition experience I would expect 2 to be borderline-underpowered and 3 to be just about right. Any more an unexpected bonus you can't take into account.

(Note: this answers a different question than the one actually asked [emoji846])

 

[MerricB]

This is a big change from 5E though, that we should expect newcomers to easily miss.

I'm okay with the wizard having to change initiative to be effective, but - as you note - it's something that may be missed.

Cheers!

 

[Campbell]

This is a big change from 5E though, that we should expect newcomers to easily miss.

This is definitely true. Timing and group coordination matter more in general. This is also true for martial characters with things like a Fighter's Intimidating strike, Grapple, Feint, and Demoralize. The Fighter in particular has abilities that allow it to take advantage of enemies that suffer from Conditions like Grabbed and Frightened.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

In PF2, if you fail to sleep everyone the party has a window of opportunity to take advantage of hitting the sleeping creature with a -6 penalty to AC, which is an enormous bonus in this system. The aforementioned fighter with a 65% hit chance goes up to 95%, and his crit chance goes from 15% to 45%! How's that for flashy?

So the fighter, who was previously probably going to hit and might crit... is now probably going to hit, and might crit. And the enemy might just make their saving throw, in which case the spell does nothing.

That's not useful. That's a borderline trap option.

 

[Puggins]

So the fighter, who was previously probably going to hit and might crit... is now probably going to hit, and might crit. And the enemy might just make their saving throw, in which case the spell does nothing.

That's not useful. That's a borderline trap option.

I mean... you can say exactly that about all sorts of spells in all editions. Is slow a trap option?

This is just the latest nerf in a long line of nerfs to sleep. First it went from no saves for anything under 4+4 HD and no effect to anything higher to saves for everyone and no higher than 4hd. Then it went from that to a 1 round casting time. 5e took it back to one action and no save but limited it to 5d8 hp.

Now this one takes 2 actions (better) and can affect anyone (better) but is all or nothing, and has a drastically smaller AoE. It’s now meant as a spell to support intrusion and stealth. The 4th level version is way better.

 

[Gladius Legis]

The Palad ... err ... Champion is probably the weakest class in the combined history of D&D and Pathfinder, but we're talking about the Wizard being underpowered. That's pretty hilarious.

 

[FrogReaver]

The Palad ... err ... Champion is probably the weakest class in the combined history of D&D and Pathfinder, but we're talking about the Wizard being underpowered. That's pretty hilarious.

Huh?

 

[Gladius Legis]

Huh?

I know, off topic. I just hate how the Champion turned out and how weak it is. Carry on.

 

[FrogReaver]

I know, off topic. I just hate how the Champion turned out and how weak it is. Carry on.

Seems pretty good to me...

 

[Campbell]

Seems pretty good to me...

In their niches of fighting nasty evil things and protecting and healing allies they seem quite potent. They don't seem like they will be good generalized damage dealers. I'm fine with that.