D&D 5E (2014) Low Level Wizards Really Do Suck in 5E

[Uchawi]

At least a wizard has utility, a class like a champion fighter is a snooze fest in comparison.

 

[Emka]

Let's not make "right" or "wrong" judgements here on particular playstyles... because admittedly much of what you made mention could be disallowed based upon particular table style and DM style. Ray of Frost (ne "Ice Blast") doesn't "freeze" anything (to knock someone prone or otherwise) per the actual mechanics of the spell (mechanically, all it does is slow someone down)... so that's your DM adding a flavor and fluff mechanic that the spell itself doesn't actually have. Which is *great* (in my opinion) that your DM adds that kind of stuff... but not every table does. So it's not a "correct" or "incorrect" way of playing that got you these results at your table.

Similarly, Shocking Grasp is not a distance spell, it's a melee spell. And also, mechanically-speaking it requires metal armor to be worn, not that any monster just touching metal is more susceptible. So again... while it's great that your DM is making these judgement calls to allow these to be used in the particular ways that you mention... the fact that other tables might not get to do the same thing doesn't make your way "correct".

If KarinsDad's DM doesn't allow this expansion of cantrips that your table allows... then his gripes about being underpowered might have more weight than you're allowing for.

Indeed, I did not imply a right or wrong way of playing. I meant that given the right tools (ie creativity or DM handwaving) even a low level wizard can change the tides.

Also, I feel it's safe to say that if a Burning Hands causes fire then a Ray of Frost causes .. well.. frost. No it doesn't knock anyone prone but running off a frozen stairwell is bound to trip anyone up.
Shocking Grasp is melee, obviously. Hence using the metal chain as a conduit. It might not be seen as wearing metal armor for the damage but it does change a strict melee spell into a pseudo ranged spell. (Not without risk, mind. The bugbear might use his turn to yank the chain and bring the Wizard in melee range against his will.. oops?)
Still if you do feel inclined to cross those two off the list there's still a whole lot there that works and works well.


Ultimately this is like that thread where the guy's Warlock was being gimped. If your DM does not allow for certain things (like only one short rest per day in the Warlock thread) then some classes might obviously be drawing the short stick.

 

[Sacrosanct]

At least a wizard has utility, a class like a champion fighter is a snooze fest in comparison.

I posit this depends on the player.

 

[mcintma]

True. I don't plan to pick up any high level save spells. They would be fairly useless unless they have an instantaneous affect that is substantial even if they save.

Yes - that may be necessary, and would be the way of ensuring your 1 and only spell slot of 7/8/9th for the day does not fizzle.

 

[KarinsDad]

I was tempted to play an abjuration specialist. I went Evoker because a forest gnome evoker is hilarious. Nothing like having the tiny guy be the most frightening member of your group.

Yes, I think that school selection was the toughest decision so far. Our forest gnome ranger / wizard is also an evoker. He has AC 19 (24 with Shield), fights with a rapier, and can cast cure wounds and hunters mark many times a day.

 

[trentonjoe]

I have seen two players play wizards over the last few months. One is 3rd level and the other is 6th.

Both players have kinda complained about the "fun" factor in the wizard.

Their complaints consists of:

* With limited resources it is a huge let down when your big spell sizzles. You wait all day to do Burning Hands and your 9 points of damage save to 4 is a bit underwhelming.

* Spells, especially enchantments and illusions, depend on the DM and/or are situational. Sometimes you wait, you wait and you wait and then either you can't use the spell you have been holding on to or the DM rules that it won't work.

As the other guy at the table i have noticed this:

*Sleep isn't a must have spell after 1st/2nd level. The monster have to many hit points at the beginning of the combat. It's still good but it is situationaly good, like it should be.

*Using cantrips is very effective.

* Spells that cause creatures to lose their actions (like Tasha's) are very valuable.

*Wizards aren't the single target damage dealers fighters and rogues are but they hold their own.

*

 

[Evhelm]

Some live experience may be useful here:

I'm DM'ing for a party going through LMoP and they've just started fussing their way through Wave Echo Cave. (Some minor spoilers for those of you doing LMoP!)

In one encounter, they were ambushed by a swarm of stirges; they were surrounded. The wizard had two of them latched on and draining blood before the rest of the party had really figured out how to react. In desperate hope, the wizard (and here's the important part), as an Evoker, cast Thunderwave. Granted, the stirges have very low health, but this one act managed to destroy all 8-10 stirges in one attack (the Paladin and Rogue had both decided to pull them off rather than attack them for fear of hitting their comrades, and the Cleric had used his round to heal folks). Incidentally, they did fail their save, but even with half damage and no knockback the Wizard would have saved the party from expending many more resources--and maybe a party death--by a single 1st level spell.

The key to this combat victory was that the Wizard was an Evoker: Sculpt Spell allowed him hit the stirges but not his comrades.

Later on, the party again found itself surrounded, this time by zombies. Again, Thunderwave comes out. This time, the zombies make their save, and the wizard does a measly three damage to each of them. However, that measly three damage was done to eight zombies--so 24 damage in one level 1 spell, to a variety of opponents.

It seems like if you're willing (as a non-evoker) to commit to friendly fire, you can still dish out incredible damage. Obviously, this is not the best solution, but it does demonstrate that a wizard--with proper planning (the wizard's forte) can be extremely useful in combat as he is in non-combat situations.

 

[travathian]

Hold Person for example. On paper, it sounds great. In reality:

a) The target has to be humanoid. A very tiny percentage of foes in the MM are humanoid.

I wish you and others would stop doing this. The majority of creatures in a game world are humanoid. Just cause the MM has a large variety of non-humanoid creatures, does not mean you will encounter a large number of them.

How many Otyugh is your character ever going to see? Treants? Xorn? Darkmantle? Grey ooze?

Now how many humans, dwarves, elves, gnomes, orcs, bugbears, drow, gith, gnoll, lizardfolk, kobold . . . . Do I really need to continue? Not only are there more humanoid creatures in the MM than you give credit, but by sheer numbers a player will encounter, the ratio is probably 100:1.

 

[Jester David]

With limited resources it is a huge let down when your big spell sizzles. You wait all day to do Burning Hands and your 9 points of damage save to 4 is a bit underwhelming.

If you're using your AoE spell on a single target that's the risk you run.

Sleep isn't a must have spell after 1st/2nd level. The monster have to many hit points at the beginning of the combat. It's still good but it is situationaly good, like it should be.

Emphasis added.
That said, there are some math problems with the spell. You add 2d8 every spell level, which works out to 1d8 each level. But monster HD seem to increase 2/CR.

 

[KarinsDad]

I wish you and others would stop doing this. The majority of creatures in a game world are humanoid. Just cause the MM has a large variety of non-humanoid creatures, does not mean you will encounter a large number of them.

How many Otyugh is your character ever going to see? Treants? Xorn? Darkmantle? Grey ooze?

Now how many humans, dwarves, elves, gnomes, orcs, bugbears, drow, gith, gnoll, lizardfolk, kobold . . . . Do I really need to continue? Not only are there more humanoid creatures in the MM than you give credit, but by sheer numbers a player will encounter, the ratio is probably 100:1.

I wish people would read all of the words I write and not just some of them. I also wrote "Casting it on a mook (not every weak foe has the word mook printed on his forehead) is pretty much a waste." and "If the PCs are in town with a lot of humanoids, this spell might have some limited traction. If not, it's probably a waste of a prep."


We were just in a "dungeon". There were human guards outside. We had time to prep. If I had the spell, I could have prepped it. We had the four outer guards, a room of a dozen human guards, two higher level humanoids, 5 lizard-like humanoids and about four kobolds. We also had a dozen and a half undead, a half dozen other beasts, a dozen flying beasts, one major (big) monster. Now, I am being a bit vague here due to spoilers.

Out of all of these creatures, only 2 are worth casting a Hold Person on. Two humanoids worth it out of about 60 creatures. In a dungeon where we knew there would be some humanoids. The vast majority of the rest of the humanoids went down in one or two swings. Those foes are not worth wasting a Hold Person on.

So yes, there are tons of humanoids out in campaign worlds. There are only a tiny handful worth using a Hold Person on.


Also, there are not "more humanoid creatures in the MM than I give credit". Out of the 40 "As" in the index, 4 of them are humanoid. And many of the humanoids from the MM (21 total) are from Appendix B, the NPCs (i.e. not races, but classes/professions). I checked this out some time back. I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was something like 10% or 15%. If you claim otherwise, please go count it yourself.


So although your opinion is noted, it doesn't invalidate what I wrote.