Low magic and inherent armor class dodge bonuses

[uv23]

uv23:

I see your point, but it's not just that. Monsters still have both high AC and BaB at that level, so they will always hit the fighter, but the fighter will not always hit the monster, thus high level encounters are no longer properly designed for the ability of the characters. Do you think this is a problem?

No I still don't see this as a problem. The whole idea in low-fantasy, low-magic, gritty campaigns is that things should be hard and somewhat lethal. There's no reason that a 20th level fighter in one of these campaign types should beable to defeat a dragon. In fact, I think its better that high CR monsters wil retain their high AC. It'll bring the fear back!

 

[Jeph]

The idea in "gritty" campaigns is that the characters need to rely on skill to survive--therefore they would have better reflexes. Anyway, have you EVER watched a movie where skilled combatants heit each other even once every FIVE rounds? Ever seen Mask of Zorro? Raiders of the Lost Ark? In this type of thing, combatants get hit WAY less than half the time. As in real life.

I havn't studied fencing for long, but I have seen videos of matches from all sikill levels. It takes quite a while for a hit to be scored in most matches. Not 4 hits a round, as 20th level fighters with no Base Defense would have it.

That's why I like Grim n Gritty HP. It's cool. It works. People don't walk around with 35 arrows sticking out of them. If they got hit by 2 or 3, they'd die.

Its RELISTIC.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

It all depends on how you interpret hit points Jeph. If you look at them as simply every time an attack is sucesfull against you the weapon hits it is not very realistic at all. But I prefer a differnet interpretation:

A 10th level fighter has 20 arrows shot down at him from a gaurd tower, 10 are sucessful hits how ever only one physically hits the character at the expense of his hp he dodged all the other ones.

In other words when you lose hit points you're avoiding the attack at extreme physical exertion, when the attack misses you do to AC, no hp was used. Sorry if this is confusing.

 

[Jeph]

It all depends on how you interpret hit points Jeph. If you look at them as simply every time an attack is sucesfull against you the weapon hits it is not very realistic at all. But I prefer a differnet interpretation:

A 10th level fighter has 20 arrows shot down at him from a gaurd tower, 10 are sucessful hits how ever only one physically hits the character at the expense of his hp he dodged all the other ones.

In other words when you lose hit points you're avoiding the attack at extreme physical exertion, when the attack misses you do to AC, no hp was used. Sorry if this is confusing.

It's not confusing: It's VP/WP

 

[melargo]

Actually, Jeph, in real life fencing, points are scored astonishingly fast. I would go as far as to say that if action was not stopped by scoring a point, that several touches could be scored in a period of time lasting only several seconds. You have said that you have watched videos of fencing, and I have as well. I have also fenced for several years, and in my prime I was nationally ranked in both foil and sabre, and even had the opportunity to fence the U.S. foil champion, Nick Bravin, who represented the U.S. in the Barcelona games. I can tell you that after I scored a point that gave me the lead in the match, Nick stopped playing around and scored points so fast on me that I could barely see them coming.
That is not to say that sometimes it does not take some time to set up some hits, but the vast majority of touches in foil, and especially in sabre (where the 5 points are sometimes scored in less than 20 seconds) come at a very fast pace. Unfortunately, you can't base swordfighting in a fantasy setting on something like fencing. It's really like comparing boxing to professional wrestling. One is a sport, and the other is physical entertainment.

That's just my two cents.

 

[Jeph]

I've fenced for less than a month, so I'm not a sage. Thanks for the corrections. (by the way, are your 2 cents USD? I've almost saved up enough to get the new everquest book without provoking indignant squaks from relatives.)

 

[Victim]

One other thing to consider is that most real life or fictional characters don't have access healing or ressurection magic - also, most characters seem very agressive anyway. Consequently, I'd imagine that getting injured or dieing would be a serious concern.

Therefore, many combatants are probably using the Fight Defensively and or Expertise. So character A increases his AC and reduces his chance to hit. Now he hits AC 20 with a +20 base attack on an 9 instead of zero and his AC is 27, so the other guy needs a 6 instead of zero. Then we'll assume that A's enemy B also fights defensively with expertise. Now we have two people with +11 attacks striking against AC 27. They need 16s to hit instead of 2s.

 

[hong]

No I still don't see this as a problem. The whole idea in low-fantasy, low-magic, gritty campaigns is that things should be hard and somewhat lethal. There's no reason that a 20th level fighter in one of these campaign types should beable to defeat a dragon.

Even in straight D&D, a lone 20th level fighter would probably be hard-pressed to defeat a great wyrm.

In fact, I think its better that high CR monsters wil retain their high AC. It'll bring the fear back!

You don't need to change the rules to bring the fear back. Just throw EL N+4 encounters at your Nth level party on a regular basis. It'll put the fear right back in, I guarantee.

 

[uv23]

You don't need to change the rules to bring the fear back.

Exactly. So keep those +5 rings of protection in the closet and let your players use their wits. To top it off, ban all raising and resurrection spells. Then you'll have a setting worth playing in!