Tony Vargas
Legend
shhhh!
Low-Magic Campaign
- Thread starter AlestonAlesgone
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Enevhar Aldarion
Hero
Something that irks me when people refer to 5E as "low magic" is that it is really only low magic in the expectations of how many permanent magic items your character needs is his career to survive fights with tougher and tougher enemies. It is in no way "low magic" when it comes to the magical abilities of most of the character classes and sub-classes. That is what I would want to see reined in and what my past post in this thread was directed at.
I can count on one hand the number of things about 5E that I do not like and probably have fingers left over. One of those things, which I also hated about 4E, is the unlimited use, video game-like, powers that the players have. When you have casters who can throw around unlimited cantrips, that scale with level, with no depletion of slots or points or fatigue or anything, is total BS for anything even remotely "low magic".
I can count on one hand the number of things about 5E that I do not like and probably have fingers left over. One of those things, which I also hated about 4E, is the unlimited use, video game-like, powers that the players have. When you have casters who can throw around unlimited cantrips, that scale with level, with no depletion of slots or points or fatigue or anything, is total BS for anything even remotely "low magic".
Tony Vargas
Legend
I have to disagree with this last bit, a little. Whether magic is at will or daily makes little difference to blowing the 'low magic' vibe (though, of course, it all depends on what you mean by 'low magic,' too).
If magic can be used systematically, without risk or price, by anyone who learns how to do it, yeah, that blows low magic, whether you're systematically plinking away with an eldritch bolt every 6 seconds, or casting a wall of iron 1/day, every day, to undermine an economy.
OTOH, if the character tossing eldritch bolts is one in a million, can't do much more magic than that in combat and/or without risking severe consequences, and, if a PC, actually doing less damage with his eldritch bolts than the same-level PC archer is with his arrows, that's not so bad. The setting is still 'low magic' and, on the PC side, the magic isn't overpowered or overversatile or prone to the kinds of systematic (ab)use that can shatter the sense of that magic being rare and limited.
There are potentially a lot of ways to do that. D&D casters have, historically, not had as much, as easy, or as safe magic as in 5e. It'd be simple to re-instate some of the limitations on casting, including spell interruption and slot loss, for instance. Imagine if spells all had a full-round casting time. You start casting with your action, on the start of your next turn, the spell goes off. You could still cast 1 spell/round, it's just if you get hit while you're casting *poof* (or, make a concentration check, I suppose, if we want easy mode).
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Caliburn101
Explorer
I think I see the issue here Tony Vargas.
Play some other fantasy rpgs, like RuneQuest or GURPS Fantasy to see how gritty and deadly can go hand in hand with a lot of magic.
You're argument here is too D&D'centric, and you seem to judge these thing with those blinkers on.
I've been playing since 1978, and seem to have had a different experience from you in editions 1-2, but whatever.
It isn't even difficult to make D&D low magic work well, or to change the default D&D pacing to something that resembles one of these other games without turning it into the slog you incorrectly assume it would become. But then if you haven't ever played that type of game, then you're not going to know that, and if you have played them, then you should know... in which case why argue from your point of view in the first place?
I don't have the slightest problem running an exciting game without whack-a-mole healing...
Play some other fantasy rpgs, like RuneQuest or GURPS Fantasy to see how gritty and deadly can go hand in hand with a lot of magic.
You're argument here is too D&D'centric, and you seem to judge these thing with those blinkers on.
I've been playing since 1978, and seem to have had a different experience from you in editions 1-2, but whatever.
It isn't even difficult to make D&D low magic work well, or to change the default D&D pacing to something that resembles one of these other games without turning it into the slog you incorrectly assume it would become. But then if you haven't ever played that type of game, then you're not going to know that, and if you have played them, then you should know... in which case why argue from your point of view in the first place?
I don't have the slightest problem running an exciting game without whack-a-mole healing...
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CapnZapp
Legend
snickersnax
Explorer
One way you can "lower" magic is to slide the spell progression of casters up 2 levels. There is room at the upper levels to slide 9th level spells to level 19/20 instead of 17-20. This makes levels one and two into apprentice levels (magic takes a long time to learn). 1st level full casters start with one cantrip. 2nd level is 2 cantrips and a 1st level spell (since magic initiate is now two levels of caster, eliminate it from the possible feats). Use non-magic ranger version. Make bards half-casters (follow the ranger chart). Slide all the half casters spell progression up 2 levels as well. Eliminate cantrip progression.
That way magic can still be around, but players/ npcs have to make a big commitment to it for it to pay off. For all the people who want to whine about balance. You were looking for a way to not have any casters in your world anyway.
That way magic can still be around, but players/ npcs have to make a big commitment to it for it to pay off. For all the people who want to whine about balance. You were looking for a way to not have any casters in your world anyway.
The Hierophant
Explorer
Another vote for Adventures in Middle Earth as a great low magic version of 5e.
CapnZapp
Legend
A great example of the wrong attitude.
Nerfing some classes relative to the others is simply quite unnecessary. And bad.
There are ways to prevent/slow spellcasting that doesn't make choosing a caster an inferior choice relative to choosing a non-caster.
Use those methods instead.
Tldr You're conflating two entirely different things.
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Ganymede81
First Post
I think one of the problems of this is it treats magic-using classes, classes that are ostensibly balanced with non-magic-using classes, as a player reward.
That isn't really a reward, though. It is just an addition to a pool of equally valid and powerful player options.
Instead of doing that, why not just hand out spell slots and spells known (on a very sparing basis) to your allowed classes as rewards in lieu/addition to magic items? That feels like much more of a reward.
That isn't really a reward, though. It is just an addition to a pool of equally valid and powerful player options.
Instead of doing that, why not just hand out spell slots and spells known (on a very sparing basis) to your allowed classes as rewards in lieu/addition to magic items? That feels like much more of a reward.
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