Low-magic/High-magic: The casting or the spells?

2WS-Steve said:
Just to add to your alternatives:

Conan d20's magic system is dark and subtle -- good for a low magic feel.

Call of Cthulhu d20 magic would also make a nice low magic system.

Alternately, there are actually a lot of nice, low magic feeling spells spread across all the various d20 rulebooks out there -- it's just that they're usually too specialized so the players always rely on the old Magic Missile. One thing you could do is go into E-Tools, PCGen, DM Genie, or one of the various spellbook making applications you can find on the internet -- then just go through the whole list of spells as if you were making your own spellbook, but specifically take only the spells that are cool or fit your concept (frex I'd drop MM but definitely keep Evard's Black Tentacles) -- then make any small adjustments to level you might want.

Conan's magic system is quite good. If I were rebooting the campaign, I could probably just go with it. Presently, I've got the Arcane/Divine separation, and on top of that Conan's (& presumably CoC's) "power corrupts" system doesn't really fit the races & setting. Although "Dark Arts" exist, in the campaign world it's more the caster's application of magic rather than the magic itself that is evil or corrupting. I've heard a lot of good things about CoC d20, however. I haven't been able to find a copy anywhere to look through it, but I appreciate the suggestion.

As to the E-Tools, DM Genie, etc. - I haven't heard of these before. I'll have to investigate further.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Azgulor
 

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arscott said:
From what I understand, AU/AE uses 0-9 level spells that fit the standard D&D power curve, but has more flavorful spells and doesn't have any near-broken spells like magic missile. What about taking a low-magic casting system designed to work with D&D (Such as Grim Tales), and plugging in Arcana Unearthed spells?

This sounds like it might be the fix I was looking for. Right now, I'm leaning towards the spellcasting rules from Thieves' World Player's Guide, but Grim Tales is running a close 2nd. Both work within a framework of spells having levels (0-9). If AU/AE's spells don't have the problems of broken spells ala D&D, I may be set. As I understand it, AU/AE doesn't have the Arcane/Divine division, but I think coming up with that separation would be easy enough to do. And if the spells provide a closer feel to fantasy-novel magic than video-game magic, I think the spellcasting rules from TW or GT would keep the power level in check. Guess I have some homework to do.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Azgulor
 

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and ideas. Although I knew variant spellcasting rules were popular, I was afraid I was the only one out there that didn't love the D&D spells.

Since I've received several excellent ideas, I'll shoot for a few more opinions:

1. Any opinions/comparisons on AU/AE spells vs. D&D? I've read Monte Cook's Design Diaries on the subject but would like some first-hand opinions.

2. Would the Call of Cthulu d20 spells be compatible with Conan's sorcery rules? Can you still get CoC d20 in print?

Thanks!

Azgulor
 

I would point your attention towards "Blue Rose", a campaign setting/rule-set for d20 by Green Ronin.

Their spell system is skill-based, and their spells have very little flash-bang or fire-and-forgetfulness to them. Most spells need to be maintained by (essentially) making Will saves or they fizzle... and you suffer penalties for maintaining more than one spell at a time (making things like uber-buffing nigh impossible).

I suggest giving it a read... it has all but converted me to the True20 format.
 

I like BR/True 20 a lot, although the power list is a little sparse compared to the rich (though sometimes redundant) spell list of d20. If your willing to wing it a little, True 20 has a lot to offer in terms of magic and the limitations on spellcasting are great when roleplaying is much preferred over number crunching. That is not to say the True 20 doesn't have crunch, it is quite an enjoyable system, but just very divergent from the traditional concept of a "spell"
 

Just to follow up, I've found a lot of parallels between BR/True20 and BESM d20 (by ... Guardians of Order?) in that spells/special abilites work very much like Superpowers.

This is unsurprising when you consider that Mutants and Masterminds was (IIRC) the first supplement to come out from Green Ronin that used the True20 system.

That in mind, one could theoretically invent new spells the same or a similar way one could invent new superpowers...

I haven't tried it myself, but the concept seems sound at first glance.
 

I thought I'd post a couple of spells presented in the Dark Legacies Player's Guide to give you an idea of what they're like. These are pretty powerful in the context of the setting. There are very few combat-specific spells in DL, only one minor healing spell with some interesting side effects, no resurrection or flying or wishing or teleporting or anything of that sort. Some very powerful spells are given (like armageddon device) but the spellcasting cost and casting requirements are extreme.

CONSUME MIND
[Mind-Affecting]
Availability: Legendary
Level: 5
Cooperative: No
Components: V, M, F
Strain: 5d4 nonlethal, 1 Wis damage
Casting Time: 5 rounds (30 seconds)
Range: Personal
Target: Caster
Duration: 1d4 minutes

By implanting a demon jawbone into his own head, the caster’s mouth is transformed into a hideous, gaping maw, which he can wrap around a creature’s head in order to absorb some of its knowledge and memories. The new jaw transforms the lower half of the caster’s face into a jagged, bony formation twice the width of his head. While enhanced, he can consume the head of a creature up to one size larger than he is.

In order for the process to work, the intended target must be unconscious, paralyzed, or otherwise unable to move or defend itself. Once the spell has been cast, the caster must spend a full-round action wrapping his mouth around the head of the creature. Following this, he can take no other actions until he detaches himself, thus ending the spell. If the caster loses concentration while attached, his jaw snaps back into its original shape, and the spell ends.

For every full minute that the caster is attached to the victim, he has a 25% chance of recalling a single piece of knowledge possessed by the creature – a location, password, facial memory, etc. He also gains a +1 enhancement bonus to Intelligence per minute; this extra Intelligence provides a bonus to Intelligence-based skill checks, but the caster does not gain any skill ranks because of it. The temporary Intelligence bonus lasts 6d10 minutes following the termination of the spell. The creature, in turn, takes 1 point of Intelligence damage for every full minute the caster is attached, and 1 point of Constitution damage for every two minutes.

Material Component: A thick paste made from glue, rosemary, and bile, in sufficient quantity to coat the jawbone.

Focus: Demon jawbone.

Casting Process: The caster coats the jawbone with the paste then holds it in front of his mouth while invoking the spell. Once completed, his jawbone cracks, splitting his mouth so that it is wide enough to accept the demon’s jawbone, which is then inserted. When the spell ends, the demon jawbone is expelled and the caster’s face reverts back to normal except for slight scarring upon the corners of the mouth, and an ache that lasts several days.


CREEPING TUMORS
Availability: Rare
Level: 6
Cooperative: No
Components: V, M, F
Strain: 6d4 nonlethal, 1d4 Con damage
Casting Time: 3 hours
Range: Unlimited
Targets: One humanoid creature
Duration: Permanent; see text
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; see text

This spell creates an infestation of demonic tumors in the body of the victim that suck away its vitality, causing rapid aging. The tumors ravage the creature’s body for 10d6 days before becoming inert. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the spell lasts only 1 day. For each day (or portion of a day) that passes, the creature ages one year. If the effect of this spell is disrupted by a priest, the tumors immediately become inert, but the aging is irreversible. A creature suffers all of the physical detriments of aging (such as the –1 to Str, Dex, and Con at middle age) but none of the mental benefits, until the proper number of years have passed before he would have reached that age naturally.

Material Component: A tumor removed from a creature of the same type as the victim; fluids from the actual victim (such as saliva retrieved from a glass or urine from a toilet).

Focus: The skull of a creature of the same type as the victim, which died at a venerable age. Such focus skulls are normally highly polished, jeweled, and inlaid with gold detailing.

Casting Process: The cancerous flesh is placed in the mouth of the skull. The caster wets his hand with the victim’s fluids then places the palm on the top of the skull, which becomes hot with his touch. A deep red glow – dull at first then intensifying as the spell progresses – emanates from the skull’s eye sockets then fades entirely when the spell completes. The process burns the tumor away completely and also inflicts mild burners on the caster’s hand; he suffers a –1 penalty on attack rolls and to skill and ability checks that require the use of that hand, all for a period of 24 hours.
 
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Azgulor said:
T1. Any opinions/comparisons on AU/AE spells vs. D&D? I've read Monte Cook's Design Diaries on the subject but would like some first-hand opinions.

AU/AE is mosty certainly High Magic. The power curve is simply spread out differently from D&D. In AU/AE more signifgant effects take a little more work and devotion in character development and aren't always as low level as they are in D&D. Magic in AU/AE doesn'ty seem "bolted on" at all but feels like an integral part of the game/setting. Flying (for example) as the Flight spell is still possible for some casters as a 3rd level spell but provides fairly slow flight. Teleportation is tricker and requires a fair amoint of planning compard to how it works in D&D. Raise the Dead is a 7tyh level spell tha must be cast on 7 consecutive days so life restoring magic is more signifigant then it is in D&D.
 

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